The Weekly Listen: What replaces "Just Walk Out" as the future of retail, the Atlantic's come back, and igniting TV shopping

On today's podcast episode, we discuss why Amazon is pulling back from "Just Walk Out" technology, how the Atlantic magazine turned things around, what will ignite TV shopping, whether LinkedIn testing TikTok-like videos is a good move, what science says about how to be happy, and more. Tune into the discussion with vice president of content Suzy Davidkhanian, analyst Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf, and vice president of Briefings Stephanie Taglianetti.

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Episode Transcript:

Marcus Johnson:

This episode is made possible by Walmart Connect. If you expect your media investment to deliver clear, measurable results, Walmart Connect can help you get there, with powerful analytics and the reach of America's number one retailer. Their closed loop measurement uses Walmart's proprietary customer purchase data to track the impact of your campaign on sales, not just on Walmart's site and app, but also in store. For some campaigns they can even provide rest of market data that tracks the impact on sales at other retailers. Visit walmartconnect.com today and see how they can help make your media spend meaningful. Walmart Connect, more than media, meaningful connections.

Hello everyone and thanks for hanging out with us for the Behind the Numbers Weekly listen, an e-Marketer podcast made possible by Walmart Connect. This is the Friday show that shows up when it wants to. Right Suzy?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't even know what to say to that. I was ready-ish. Just my computer wasn't.

Marcus Johnson:

She made us wait 20 minutes before starting the show, just to make sure her tulips was in shot.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Well, you guys weren't even ready for me. We still had to do all of the processing.

Marcus Johnson:

Don't blame Lance and Danny.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I'm not because they're the best.

Marcus Johnson:

For those folks watching us on...

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So I would never dare blame them.

Marcus Johnson:

If you squint, you still can't see the tulips, so you're not missing anything. [inaudible 00:01:16] your people.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So rude.

Marcus Johnson:

You're missing literally nothing either.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

The Whole Foods tulips in homage to Amazon.

Marcus Johnson:

I'm your host Marcus Johnson. In today's show, if just walkout technology isn't the future of retail. What is? How The Atlantic turned things around? What will ignite TV shopping? LinkedIn tests TikTok like videos and the power of happiness. Join me for this episode. We have three people. Let's meet them. We start with one of our Vice Presidents of Content who heads up our retail and e-commerce team based in New York City. That is, it's Suzy Davidkhanian.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

Of course. We're also joined by one of our Senior Analyst covering everything digital advertising and media, based in Virginia. It's Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Hello Marcus. Hello everyone.

Marcus Johnson:

Hello there. And finally we have our Vice President of everything briefings based in New Jersey. It's of course Stephanie Taglianetti.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Yes, rounding out the dream team as we know.

Marcus Johnson:

No, stop, that's not a thing.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Love it.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Cheers mate.

Marcus Johnson:

They've been trying to call themselves that for about two minutes.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

You started it.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

We are calling ourselves that. We're not trying to.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

First of all, Marcus started it, so I don't even know.

Marcus Johnson:

No, I didn't start it.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Yes, you absolutely did. I mean, you still call me to come every time, so clearly I'm doing a good job for you.

Marcus Johnson:

Who's the captain? Me, that's who.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

We're co-captains.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

We're all equals in this dream team.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay, good answer. We start with the story of the week. We're talking about the future of retail. We thought it was just walkout technology or some of us did, but maybe it's not. We then move to our debate of the week. Our panel will try to present the best for and against arguments they can from a couple of the stories we've got for you. And we end with some random trivia, this dinner party data. We'll start of course with the story of the week.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Can you see my tulip still?

Marcus Johnson:

Good God. We have to...

Stephanie Taglianetti:

No, we still... We never did.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Should I bring it up?

Marcus Johnson:

No. What do you mean should you? You've brought it up like a million times already.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No, I meant should I bring the vase closer.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Like bring them forward.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, closer.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Come on, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson:

Closer is the last thing we need.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

You know I'm going to bring them up for the whole show. Thank God it's only 30 minutes.

Marcus Johnson:

Eventually Suzy's just left. It's just tulips where she used to sit. If just walkout technology isn't the future of retail, then what is? Physical retail appears to be doing pretty well as our senior retail analyst, Zak Stambor notes, retailers, restaurants and other businesses see significant value in physical retail spaces, which helped retail occupancy levels hit a five-year high last year at 88%. Going to Datex Property Solutions, data reported in chain store age. In-store shopping accounts for 84 cents of every dollar, 84% of all retail is in store. And by the next Olympics, 2028, in-store shopping will still account for 80 cents of every dollar. So it's pretty important and retailers are trying to figure out how to take brick and mortar to the next level. Amazon's just walkout technology might not be the answer after all though. The retail giant announced that it was removing it from Amazon Fresh stores, notes... Or actually it was reported on [inaudible 00:04:48] first of all.

Just walkout technology, if you're wondering is that stuff where customers pay for items as they take them off the shelves, as cameras and weight sensors track your shopping journey as you go around the shop and sends the receipt to you after you leave the store. The Associated Press notes, Amazon will be replacing just walkout with smart carts that let folks skip the checkout line, but also can see their spending and savings in real time following shopper feedback about those. But Suzy, I'll start with you because you [inaudible 00:05:18] retail and e-commerce team. What do you make of Amazon pulling back from its just walkout technology and what does this tell us?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So I think the way we should be thinking about this from my perspective is twofold, right? It's not that they're giving up on the technology, it's that they're not going to have it in the fresh store. And then I think the conversation becomes, which is a different one, so I know we don't want to go down that path, but is Amazon truly going to be a grocery place, the destination where people are going to go grocery shopping? So once we take that out of the equation and we don't even think about it in that term, we just think about the technology. I don't think it's the end of just walkout, right? It's still going to be in other sort of convenience shops. We know that it's going to be at the airport. We've been to. It's at Javits Center, other areas that... I was just at the New Jersey Devils game where they played against Toronto, that Toronto won, and there was a whole vending machine system with an attendant who was helping people how to go through... I know. Did you like that?

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Canada won.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy's from Canda.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So it'll still be in existence. I think what happened with this in particular is that for grocery, which is a lot of items in a bag, for the idea that it took a long time to get the bill in after, so you could see your itemized bill for all of the friction points that come with grocery shopping. It didn't solve for those, right? But Fresh came at the height of COVID when nobody wanted to touch anything.

Marcus Johnson:

Good point.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So I think they probably thought it was a good idea. They put it into practice and realized, nope, it's not going to work. We can't scale too many friction points.

Marcus Johnson:

Well, since your point, yeah, I mean it will continue in limited form. It'll be offered in the Amazon Go stores, some smaller Amazon Fresh stores in the UK as well. And then Amazon's still going to offer the technology to third-party retailers. But to your point, they tried it out, just walkout is still only kind of an experiment. They have close to 40 Fresh stores, just over half of them use just walkout technology. So it's not like they rolled this out to the entire country of thousands of stores and it didn't work, still very much in beta you could argue.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah. Well, they don't, I mean not to be super literal, but they don't have a thousand stores to roll it out to. But they did say this isn't working, so we're going to try it with a different mechanism, the smart cart, which seems a little bit easier to manage in a grocery store. But the thing is, I think there was a lot of conversation around could Amazon sell this technology as a service, but who wants to give their data to someone who has 40% of market share? So I think it's like many different things that come together. At the end of the day, every retailer should know better and they should be giving consumers options, which I don't want to keep talking so I feel like I'm going to throw it to my colleagues who have lots to say as well, around self-checkout.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Yeah, I think my... After reading all the material you sent us Marcus, my opinion is essentially that there should be multiple options and it sounds like smart carts are more promising for more people than just walkout technology. Speaking for myself, the idea of being watched and having my biometric data collected is not something I would seek out regardless of who was on the receiving end of that data. And then not seeing the cost of everything before I leave the store is just not ideal for anybody on a budget. And to me, in theory, smart shopping carts alleviate a lot of those friction points and some of the frustrations of self-checkout, which I know we haven't gotten to yet, but to kind of bridge those two. I often choose self-checkout when it's an option because I like how it allows me to move at my own pace, but it can be really frustrating when the machine tells you, please place the item in the bagging area and you're like, I already did place the item in the bagging area.

Or when you're buying a bottle of wine and you have to flag down an employee to check your ID. So I think some combination of smart carts and human cashiers would be the ideal future state plus maybe some elements of just walkout technology in certain stores, because if nothing else, smart carts, if executed correctly, could reduce wait times at checkout, minimize human interaction for folks that don't want it, but also allow an analog checkout experience for folks that prefer it. And then there's also the option of... The added benefit of providing an interface that could help consumers navigate the store, which could then provide feedback to the store to optimize its layout. There are a lot of benefits there that I don't think we've even gotten to yet in this conversation. And then of course we'll have to talk about the ad opportunity too.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

So a little bit like the Instacart on a different scale because you're going to scan... Apparently Tesco has this already in the UK where you just scan your items as you're going. It has your loyalty card and it's also a retail media play. Thanks to Carina for that tip. So I think it's happening, it's just in different iterations that it's going to happen here.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

How do we deal with the theft problem that my team's been writing about with the shopping carts or just walkout? I know that...

Marcus Johnson:

It's a great question.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I think recently we wrote about Home Depot, people stealing like $100,000 worth of items at Home Depot just by simply swapping price tags on products.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

So I would say these outlier... You can't build a strategy on outlier cases and that type of thing... Theft can happen no matter where, no matter when, no matter how, doesn't matter what the technology behind it is. When people are bad, they're going to do bad things. So what I would say self-checkout is probably what we have to worry about is consumers who feel like they're being cheated. I didn't know if it was an organic avocado, a regular avocado, I'm not really sure what to do. I'm going to put organic, but it ends up being a regular avocado, so I paid an extra 10 cents. I think that frustration is a little bit harder because then we're not going to get great adoption.

Consumers aren't going to want to do it, which is why there are so many companies that are doing things like 10 item maximum or Target is doing a ridiculously short timeframe where you can help yourself. But I think variety is going to be helpful here, just like how an additional wallet, there's lots of different things you can do in the digital wallet. I think it's the same for checkout.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

I think there could also be... When I go to Sam's Club, I'll usually use self-checkout and I'll scan all my stuff and then when I have my receipt and I walk out the door, there will be someone there that'll scan my receipt and then scan a couple items in the cart. And I don't think that will solve all the issues, but having that hybrid of if we're doing smart cards and maybe just a human touch point before there's a store exit, and that could also help solve for if there does need to be an ID check, that person could be there to check IDs and stuff. So I think the hybrid approach could solve for a lot of those or just provide some anti-theft guidelines there. But you're right, I mean it is to Suzy's point, it's going to happen no matter what.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

But I just think it makes it a little bit easier with some... I've been reading a lot about retailers adapting to self-checkout theft lately, and I think regardless, there has to be a hybrid approach just based off of how people are preferring to shop. There are people who prefer self-checkout, but I understand that it's just marginally higher than the number of people who actually want to cashier to ring them up in the store.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, there's some research. You might be citing this progressive grocer and the [inaudible 00:12:34] news. And preferred grocery store checkout method among the US grocery shoppers from last year, self-checkout with a kiosk, 44%. And just behind that traditional checkout with a cashier, 39%. With just walkout technology we were talking about, the cashier, the store, 10%. So way behind that.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

I mean, the just walkout is still kind of new. People have to wrap their heads around. If you think about QR codes, I mean we use this example all the time, right? It's 15-year-old technology, maybe more. It only started catching on during COVID because people didn't have a choice and there was better technology. So it's not just people's behaviors but also better technology. It'll be the same for this. You just have to have the right use cases. I think the people... Like all of this data that we're talking about is truly from a CPG perspective, right? Pharmacies, convenience stores. When you start to think about department stores or the Nike store, then self-checkout becomes a whole different equation that is very hard to fulfill, especially when there are security tags. So it's also important as a retailer to think about what you're selling, to decide what are the right options, right?

Marcus Johnson:

It seems like stores went from 20 checkout desks with 20 employees manning those checkout desks to 20 self-service kiosks and just one employee. And so maybe if they had four or five circling the vicinity and being around to help you, then it wouldn't feel as cumbersome as it has come to. But Zak Stambor, who is one of our senior retail analysts points out not only do 43% of retailers have mature self-checkout systems in place, another 17% are rolling out self-checkout deployments according to a survey of retail executives conducted on behalf of NCR, Voyix and Incisive. And then Zak also says, though, this is quite interesting, consumers are more likely to return to stores where a human has checked them out versus stores where they used self-checkout, going to recent Journal of Business Research report. So yeah, you don't want to completely get rid of that human touch and that human touch can still be there with folks helping you or assisting you with the self-checkout process perhaps.

Yeah, final thing on the just walkout technology, part of the problem here is it's so expensive to install all those cameras and sensors and still requires a lot of folks on the back end as well. And also Rachel Wolf who writes for our retail briefing, pointing out that it can take hours for Amazon to email receipts to shoppers after their visit, which may not seem like a big deal for some folks, but she says it isn't ideal for budget conscious shoppers who are counting every penny. That's what we've got time for for the story of the week. We'll move now to the debate of the week. Today's segment, make the case.

Our panel Suzy, Stephanie and Evelyn pretend to be lawyers presenting the best for and against arguments they can for each of the following questions, based on three news stories. Two contestants will face off per question. These takes don't necessarily reflect how anyone feels about the stories. We start with question one, how The Atlantic turned things around. Online magazine The Atlantic went from broke to profitable in three years, writes Alexandra Bruell of the Wall Street Journal. Explaining that when Nick Thompson joined The Atlantic as chief executive in 2021, the company had $20 million deficit, traffic was down, and it just laid off 17% of its newsroom. Miss Bruell notes that today the 167-year-old publication is profitable and its newsroom is growing. A turnaround that offers a glimmer of hope for the publishing space that's cutting jobs. But the question is, is The Atlantic success replicable? Stephanie is arguing The Atlantic's success is replicable for other publishers. One minute on the clock make the case.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Yeah, I mean, we've been covering the story a lot about publishers laying off, journalists struggling with their site traffic since the pandemic surge, and contending with how search traffic is changing and how that's impacting their portions of revenue, dependent on ads. And in the case of The Atlantic, what I'm reading is that it sounds like they deployed a mix of experimenting with AI, making their content more need to have for younger audiences and then leaning heavier on higher priced subscription.

So AI is not new. We've seen a lot of publishers experimenting with it. The New York Times... We recently wrote about deploying AI to improve ad targeting. So yes, it's very scalable. The content strategy piece is harder to scale. It's very nebulous what specifically they were doing there, and every publisher needs to be thinking about how to make their content need to have, that's a given. But the freemium and subscription models are scalable for sure. It's just a matter of the price point. People are going to be willing to pay as things keep getting more expensive with subscriptions, and I think that strategy is definitely less shady than the recent reporting we did about Forbes' ghost website that artificially lengthened articles to create more ad space.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, good argument. Evelyn, The Atlantic success isn't replicable for publishers. Make the case.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

So I would say it isn't replicable for most other publishers, and that's because its strategy centers on quality and scarcity. The Atlantic has tremendous brand equity. Its name alone means something to readers, and that doesn't just happen. I mean, that took a lot of effort, but now as we enter the era of AI-generated content and generative search publications have to be top of mind for consumers to actively seek out their content. And that's just to source traffic, right? To justify the high price point of an Atlantic subscription, it has to have top-tier talent. It has to have in-depth reporting that can't be replicated by any old Joe Shmoe with ChatGPT. The vast majority of publishers don't have the brand equity or resources to attract that top tier talent and fund that kind of journalism or negotiate advertising deals directly with buyers. That said, there are ways for smaller publishers to differentiate their product so that it doesn't get buried in the AI avalanche, just like Stephanie mentioned. Just becoming need to have, focusing on a core topic and a core audience and serving that audience really well, that could also work here.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. It's interesting when they lay out what changed because it does seem pretty straightforward but hard to do. To Stephanie's point, at what price are people willing to pay? They increase their price by 50%. Everyone can't just increase their price by 50%. You have to have to to Evelyn's point a certain type of brand to make that possible. They moved away from day-to-day news coverage, so focusing on fewer deeply reported stories with wide appeal and then made it harder for readers to read the stories without paying as well. Also interesting, challenging people's thinking. Editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg saying, our readers understand that we're going to... They're going to disagree with much of what we publish. I disagree with much of what we publish, he says, and so maybe that's an interesting angle. People looking for content that is going to challenge their thinking a bit.

Story two, what will ignite TV shopping? Jasmine Sheena who writes for Marketing Brew, a brand of our sister company Morning Brew, explains that NBCUniversal is debuting virtual concessions where users can order food and drinks through on-screen QR codes during programming for home delivery. Food ads may appear during free roll and/or via pop-ups during the program. The Shoppable TV offering officially rolls out during this summer's Paris Olympics and will then be available on Peacock targeted around sports and movie watching. Question is, can this new TV shopping offering ignite TV commerce? Suzy against Evelyn and Suzy is arguing this new virtual concession TV offering can ignite TV commerce. One minute on the clock, make the case.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So I think this is packaging, right? Lots of other companies have been trying to do Shoppable media, Walmart included with NBCUniversal. Consumers understand this idea around snacking and watching TV. Like the Super Bowl, all the ads, go crazy for that, right? Every single CPG company needs to get ahead of it and make sure that you have the right Super Bowl party activities and that includes food. So I think it's a really great place to help with the ignition, but what will happen is it's going to have to be a really good experience. Some of it hasn't taken off because it's interrupting the experience. So if the QR code is big enough, that I can scan from my couch without having to get up... We just talked about how everybody understands QR code. So now we're past that hurdle.

And if I get the snack in a quick commerce kind of way, which the hard part is that that is going away a little bit and it's not very prominent in the US, so that execution is what's going to help make it ignite. If I can scan the QR code, get my chips in 30 minutes, then yeah, I'm all in. And it's definitely not new in Canada. There are pop-ups. If you think about Hulu, I don't pay for, well, I pay for the minimum, so I get the ads. So I see the pop-ups that come up before the ads that are also like you could make those scannable. Everything is scannable and so can help with media and buying and commerce, but it has to be easy.

Marcus Johnson:

Evelyn, you're arguing that this new virtual concessions TV offering can't ignite TV commerce. Make the case.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Well, interestingly, Suzy brought up a lot of the same points that I have on my list here. I mean, mostly just pointing to, again, Shoppable media has been around for a while and adoption is trending in the right direction, but it hasn't really taken off yet. And I'm not trying to say stop trying to make fetch happen, it's not going to happen. I do think that this is a great way to capitalize on impulse purchase behavior, but virtual concessions, it's not solving for a consumer need. Apparently, according to NBCU, 2 in 3 Peacock viewers are already ordering food or beverages when they sit down for a live sporting event or a movie. So in order for consumers to choose to use the path to purchase that's provided on their TV screen, it has to be easier and/or significantly cheaper than doing it yourself. And I am just not convinced that it will be based on the information that's currently available about virtual concessions.

Marcus Johnson:

I'm stunned because there is some research that suggests that people are doing this. I just can't believe it for some reason because it does seem like it's such a friction-filled experience, but there's some research suggesting folks will buy things from their big screen. Nearly a third of CTV users have bought something on their TVs in the past three months according to LG and Solutions Shoppable TV report, and half of those who have seen a CTV and with a QR code have scanned it at least once. Now that once in every three months doesn't exhibit a daily habit or a replicable behavior, but still, I'm really surprised by those numbers. I thought it would've been a lot lower.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Me too. Wait, let's do a quick poll. Who here has done that in the past three months?

Marcus Johnson:

0%. Solid research.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

The thing is... We do need to take a step back. I think there's different... Are they doing it for the showcasing and it's the cool factor... Kind of live stream shopping didn't super take off, but if you think about all the different asset types that you're going to get from that live-streaming and all the fanfare, I think it's just about the KPIs we use to measure success. So will this concession drive Lays chip sales? Maybe not, but will people think NBC is cool? Will they think Lays is cool? Will they think about Lays next time they're at the grocery store instead of buying a different brand? Maybe they'll buy Lays. Possibly.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Yeah, that's really hard to measure. But yeah, you're right.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. I wonder if they could spice it up a bit, say something like, all right, at the start of the program, start of the basketball game or whatever they say, during this game, at some point there'll be an ad and we're going to show a QR code and the first hundred people to scan that get a free whatever, bag of chocolate or...

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Gamification always works.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Yeah. That's the kind of thing where it has to be... There has to be a reason-

Stephanie Taglianetti:

[inaudible 00:24:40].

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

To choose that. Or if a pizza commercial comes up and says, if you purchase through this QR code, we'll give you $5 off a large pizza. That kind of stuff could actually encourage consumers to use it, but otherwise, why would you do that?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Or a new flavor.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Yeah.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

The only thing it would-

Marcus Johnson:

I'm sorry.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Sorry. No, I was just going to say, it's kind of like the gorillas of the world. It only worked that super quick commerce when you were in the middle of a recipe and you didn't have enough chocolate chips. So here, if you're having a party or people over and you ran out of ketchup chips, if you're living in Canada, then maybe it makes sense, right? But I think on a day-to-day basis, it's really not. This will just help brands feel more comfortable with the idea of Shoppable media. It's not going to move the needle for Lays.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, I mean, to that point, you'd also... You could maybe say again, at the start of a sporting event, perhaps a football game, you could say, all right, have an ad within maybe before the football game or within the first break, basically says if you order now from Domino's, a pizza place, where you'll get it by halftime. So have your halftime snack or whatever prepared... Your guarantee will be there by halftime or you get 50% off or something along those lines.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That's cool.

Marcus Johnson:

Because you're right, it has to fit into what you're up to.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

You know what the other small problem is, which I'm not the expert in advertising, but you need national brands or you need to start doing truly programmatic, where in this part it's Papa John's, and in this part it's Domino's, and in this part it's someone, Pizza Hut, whatever it is. And so then that also adds an extra layer of complication.

Marcus Johnson:

That's a good point.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

You're right.

Marcus Johnson:

Let's move to our final question for the debate of the week. Question three, LinkedIn tests TikTok like videos. TikTok is experimenting with short form videos. [inaudible 00:26:30] writes that a new video option on the nav bar sends folks to a feed of scrollable short form videos similar to Instagram reels and TikTok. Our senior director of briefings, Jeremy Goldman points out whilst videos can already be posted on LinkedIn, this dedicated feed will be aimed at boosting engagement and discovery of bite sized professional video content. The question is, is short form B2B video about to take off? Stephanie is arguing that it is. Make the case.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Yeah, I mean, I don't think we should think of business professionals as different from general consumers in terms of directionally what works-

Marcus Johnson:

They are. They're a weird brand.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Just what works for attention spans and content consumption preferences. So to me, it does make sense to apply what's working to this business platform, especially while LinkedIn's audience is relatively small in the social media landscape. It's arguably a lot mightier for people who want to tap professional audiences and build their careers and educate people with professional videos, and there are going to be revenue opportunities that open up with the amount of money that's pouring into B2B video ads. So I think it makes sense for sure.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy, short form B2B video isn't about to take off. Make the case.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

On LinkedIn, isn't about to take off on LinkedIn. I do think it should be taking off in the regular world, just not on LinkedIn. In that LinkedIn I think is having an existential crisis. It's having some FOMO situation. [inaudible 00:28:00] where it thinks it's got to do what everybody else is doing in that space. And I'm not even sure why it's considered a social media platform and not a professional media platform. I don't even know what the right word is, but I feel like we're already starting to see in the still images this movement into influencers sort of viral, where people are posting about the gym and saying, motivational Monday, I went to the gym, and you can do it too. Meanwhile, that has really nothing to do with something learning wise when it comes to your trade.

So I think that there is really a lot of danger that people are going to start producing videos to go viral with that intention instead of being authentic to the original reason why LinkedIn existed, which is to help with creating relationships. I don't like to use the word networking because I feel like it's very transactional, but LinkedIn was meant to help with learning and meeting people in your world of whatever work you do and helping you see other opportunities potentially, or helping you give people opportunities. And I think adding this B2B, TikTok style, and so they shouldn't be talking about it as a TikTok style will just make it very inauthentic.

Marcus Johnson:

They should change their slogan to LinkedIn, people helping people.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That's Canadian of you.

Marcus Johnson:

They shouldn't [inaudible 00:29:14]. I know. To Stephanie's point, video is growing, its share of B2B. We estimate that US B2B video ad spend were nearly double in terms of total dollars by 2022. From 2022 to 2025 as a percentage of B2B digital ad spend allocated to video, that's expected to reach 14% by then. That's what we've got time for the debate portion of our show.

We move of course to our last segment. It is time for dinner party data. This is the part of the show where we tell you about the most interesting thing we've learned this week. Let's kick things off with Stephanie.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

So Monday is tax day, and while taxes aren't fun, I was able to find some fun facts about tax day, if you can believe it. I'm going to share them with you now.

Marcus Johnson:

Awesome.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Did you know that there's free food on tax day?

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Where?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Where?

Marcus Johnson:

Where?

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Many, many, well-known restaurant chains offer free and discounted food. This includes Hardee's, Applebee's, Red Lobster, Firehouse Subs, Burger King, The Halal Guys, Einstein Bros. Bagels and Wendy's. They've all been known to offer some free food on tax day.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Wow.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

You're hearing this late readers.

Marcus Johnson:

Where was this a week ago?

Stephanie Taglianetti:

For next year.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Did you know that?

Stephanie Taglianetti:

I think they're also... Most of them are part of the same holding company.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That makes sense. That would make sense.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Did you know that before World War II, only 1% of working age citizens filed a tax return? And that is because the personal exemption rate at the time exempted all but the highest wage earners.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Oh, if only we could go back to that.

Marcus Johnson:

That was those days.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Did you also know that a 2-year-old pays more taxes than you do?

Marcus Johnson:

They should do.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Because they don't make any income?

Marcus Johnson:

They're not doing anything. No, they are...

Stephanie Taglianetti:

No, it's probably not what you're thinking-

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

But is it a specific 2-year-old?

Stephanie Taglianetti:

It is a very specific 2-year-old. Because anyone in the US who earns more than $12,200 must file income taxes. Age is not a factor. So child actors, underage app creators, prodigy gamers, young YouTubers, they all bring in cash and the government wants a share of it. So currently 2-year-old Stormy Webster, who is the daughter of Kylie Jenner and Travis Scott is considered the richest child in America, and she is not exempt from paying her taxes.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Wow. That is strange.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Strange world we live in.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

And then the fourth thing that I'll leave you with is that income taxes were only supposed to be temporary. The IRS was a byproduct of the Civil War. The national income tax and the IRS were foreseen as temporary measures to collect funds to fight the war. And income tax was allowed to expire after 10 years in 1972, but was reinstated with a constitutional amendment in 1913.

Marcus Johnson:

They just kept taking it.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Do you mean... Wait, 1972, hold on.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That's 18 I think, right?

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Yes. That's probably [inaudible 00:32:17].

Suzy Davidkhanian:

It's a very reliable [inaudible 00:32:19].

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Me too. I had a moment.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

It's like, whoa.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

At least it didn't give you a virus.

Marcus Johnson:

That was reliable as Evelyn's poll.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

And that's my trustworthy dinner party data for you.

Marcus Johnson:

Very nice. Evelyn, you're up.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Okay. I have some data here about wine from YouGov. They published this in March of this year. So 4 in 10 Americans say they never drink wine, which I found surprising, but I guess wine's not for everybody. But for wine drinkers, price is the most important factor when it comes to buying wine, by far the most important factor actually, the other factors are brand ratings, varietal, alcohol percentage, but none of them... Brand is the second highest and it is less than half as important to consumers than price. So price is that top factor. Most wine drinkers typically pay less than $20 a bottle, and that's regardless of the income level of the respondent, which I found interesting. And frequent wine drinkers are more likely to say they could taste the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $100 bottle of wine, which I think I could. So I don't know how y'all feel about it, but...

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't know.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

It depends on the wine, I guess.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I also think it depends on the state you live in and the country, because in some states the taxes are so high that the quality of a $15 bottle of wine isn't the same.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

That's a good point. I thought you were going to say the state you are in as in what level of drunkenness.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, that too probably.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Then you go to box wine.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Mental state.

Marcus Johnson:

[inaudible 00:34:11]. Very good. Suzy, you're up. You didn't do it, did you?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I sort of did. So I went to Amazon and I bought tulips by myself in the self-checkout, and there were so many of them I just wanted to learn.

Marcus Johnson:

You went to Amazon? You went to Whole Foods.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Sorry. Yes, thank you. Sorry. I went to Whole Foods where I signed in and it's my Amazon Prime user and did the whole payment experience in the... Which I love doing, but yes, you're right. Sorry. I was at Whole Foods. And so do you guys know that the value of tulips, it's growing 5% CAGR 2022 to 2029 worldwide market, $8.6 billion, which seems like a lot. But then I was like, well, how many cut flowers do we sell globally? And by 2027 it should be $45.5 billion. The other thing is that Holland is, everybody knows, the most important epicenter for tulips and the largest producer, but do you know where they're a native of?

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Middle East?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Central Asia.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

I can't click through the country because I'm scared of clicking through anything right now.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Do we have, by the way, an antivirus on our computers? Because I couldn't find one.

Marcus Johnson:

This is not time for IT questions, Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I mean, why not? We have lots of IT people on the phone.

Marcus Johnson:

Take it up with help desk after, not now. Lance you don't have to answer that.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I like cutting corners sometimes, but not in research.

Marcus Johnson:

The tulip thing is a good one. One of my favorite facts of the day that we've ever done on the other show was that during the war, World War II, the Dutch Princess Margriet was born... They had to flee Holland or flee the Netherlands, sorry, and they had to seek refuge in Canada. But if the princess was born in Canada, she wouldn't be able to be princess. And so Canada said to the Netherlands, we'll give you, was it the Ottawa Civic Hospital? We'll give you this area and it can be Dutch for when she's born. So she was born on Dutch soil and then as thanks for that, the Netherlands sends Canada tulips, for the longest time, I don't know if they still do, as a thank you.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I think they still do.

Marcus Johnson:

They still do?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I think so.

Marcus Johnson:

As a thank you.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah, it's very sweet. There's lots of fun facts about tulips. I'm just now on hyper vigilant mode of clicking on links. Like the rarest, do you know what the rarest tulip color is?

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Purple.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Blue.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That may skew... They might look like they're purple or lilac, but there are some true blue ones, but I've never even seen them. So they must be super rare or not at Whole Foods.

Marcus Johnson:

One of the two. So I've got one for you real quick. It's about the power of happiness. So number one, it's good for your health, happiness that is, literally good for your health. Research published in the Journal of Psychosomatic Medicine found people who have more positive emotions are less likely to develop the common cold. Number two, speaking of tulips, flowers can help folks who are exposed to floral scents are about three times as likely to be happy according to a study by Rutgers University researchers. Number three, being outside also helps. The outdoors makes people happier with the ideal spot for happiness being near water when the weather is warm, according to a study published in the Journal of Global Environmental Change. This actually correlates with a study that I've seen before that found the perfect temperature for humans is 70. Whether at their happiest is 74 degrees Fahrenheit or 22 Celsius. That's a study in Nature Human Behavior.

A few more for you. Bright colors can help with happiness. They go hand in hand with happiness, especially when it comes to yellow. Conversely, gray was the most surprisingly closely associated with anxiety and depression, according to a study from a journal, BMC Medical Research Methodology. Two more. Money actually can't buy you happiness, but good relationships can. Relationship satisfaction, romantic or platonic, played more of a role in happiness than $100,000 would according to the Journal of Socioeconomics. And finally-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

This is where you bring in the hugs. Hugs equal happiness.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. You were saying this before, weren't you? But no, you said hugs that last 10 seconds only with family. And even then, my mum's pushing me away and saying, Marcus, that's plenty. Happiness is scientifically contagious, according to a study out of the British Medical Journal. We can feel happy just by being around other people who are happy. So I'll leave you with that. Thank you so much to my guests for being on today's show. Thank you so, so much to Stephanie.

Stephanie Taglianetti:

Thanks for having me, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson:

Yes indeed. Thank you to Evelyn.

Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf:

Thanks Marcus. I'm wishing everyone a happy weekend.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, well played. Well played. Thank you to Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

It's always a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

Yes, of course. Thank you to Victoria who edits the show. Stuart who runs the team. Sophie who does on social media. And Lance and Danny, who's helping us out as well today with the video podcast. Thank you to both of them. Now, thanks to everyone for listening in. We hope to see you on Monday for the Behind the Numbers Daily. That's an e-Marketer podcast made possible by Walmart Connect. As Evelyn said, happy weekend.