The Weekly Listen: Is it too early to talk about Gen Alpha, what's on TikTok Live, and fast fashion repairs

Audio by Suzy Davidkhanian, Blake Droesch, and Oscar Orozco | Aug 18, 2023

On today's episode, we discuss whether it's too early to talk about Gen Alpha, delivering things without the box, what's happening on TikTok Live, fast fashion looking to repairs, what websites will look like in the future, the most popular theme parks in the world, and more. Tune in to the discussion with our vice president of content Suzy Davidkhanian, analyst Blake Droesch, and forecasting director Oscar Orozco.

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Episode Transcript:

Marcus Johnson:

This episode is made possible by Awin. Two-thirds of digital ad spend currently flows to the three big tech platforms; Google, Meta, and Amazon. But their auction-based ad models favor their own bottom line and inflate costs at a time when every single marketing dollar counts. Awin's affiliate partnerships platform offers a real alternative to big tech and puts you back in control of your ad spend. Want to find out how? Visit awin.com/emarketer to learn more.

Hello, everyone and thanks for hanging out with us for the Behind the Numbers Weekly Listen and eMarketer Podcast made possible by Awin. This is the Friday show that has a real life Grinch on today's show. But he mainly goes by his given name of Oscar. Oscar, what did you say before we hit record? All dogs are pointless and they shouldn't be allowed near people?

Oscar Orozco:

That's a lie. [inaudible]

Marcus Johnson:

That may or may not be a direct quote. When Oscar watched 101 Dalmatians, he was rooting for Cruella De Vil. That is true. I'm your host Marcus Johnson. In today's show, is it too early to talk about Generation Alpha?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

A brand would be silly not to worry about them and what type of images or what do they react to or how are they inspired because they are going to their parents and saying, obviously, they don't have money, so they're not buying it directly, right? But they are asking for things.

Marcus Johnson:

Delivery without the box?

Blake Droesch:

I mean, ethically I can understand it as well. Although I would argue, aren't we recycling those boxes? Aren't they being used again? Isn't that the point of them?

Marcus Johnson:

What is happening on TikTok live?

Blake Droesch:

Some of this odd behavior that we're seeing on live streaming is definitely, it's not new to social media. People have been doing weird stuff on streams, on Twitch, and YouTube for a while.

Marcus Johnson:

Fast fashion looks to repairs the future of website design and what the most popular amusement or theme parks in the world. Join me for this episode. We have three people. Let's meet them. We start with one of our vice presidents of content, also heads up our retail and eCommerce team based out of New York. It's Suzy Davidkhania.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

Hey Suzy. We're also joined by one of our senior analysts on that very retail and eCommerce team also based out of New York, it's Blake Droesch.

Blake Droesch:

Hello, everyone.

Marcus Johnson:

And finally, we have with us one of our directors of forecasting also based out of New York, all three of them, and is the Grinch. We also call him Oscar Orozco.

Oscar Orozco:

Here I am. Hello, everybody.

Marcus Johnson:

What's up, fellow. Victoria, if you could get some Grinch music in, that would be perfect.

Victoria:

I'm already Googling.

Oscar Orozco:

I knew she would be.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, no. You're a mean one.

Oscar Orozco:

I can't wait to hear this.

Marcus Johnson:

What do we have in store for you? Well, story of the week is where we begin. Then, there's a game and then some trivia at the end. Let's just get to it. We start with the story of the week.

Is it too early to talk about Generation Alpha? That could be a statement or a question. An article by Davina Ajana of Getty Images Creative Insights does a nice job of introducing us to the generation, the Generation Alpha, that is. She writes that this is the first generation to be born entirely in the 21st century between 2010 and 2025. They'll make up one in seven people in the world, outnumber boomers by 2025, which is in two years, and start reaching adulthood by 2030, which is in just seven years.

A recent article in PR Newswire writes, "Move over millennials and Gen Zs. It's time to make space for Generation Alpha." It notes that they are kids of millennials starting to turn 13, they say in this depends on what range you're talking about. But it's somewhere in that range of like, some people say 9, 10, 11, 12 and below basically. But they're starting to turn 13, this article notes and still being born and will be the largest generation ever with the biggest spending power. A generation that will not know a world without AI, gaming, AR and streaming. But folks, is it time to make space already for Generation Alpha?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't think it's ever too early, right? Brands need to really understand who the up and coming consumers are so that they can get ready to welcome them into their space. Plus, to be honest, we know from a lot of different research that kids influence households. So understanding who the kids in the household are to try and get their attention is also a win.

Marcus Johnson:

Right. Because even if you're not selling directly to kids, just to kids, they are already starting to influence household purchases. There was some Morning Consult research saying that a child's influence on household purchases starts from around the age of five, and so they were saying for five to nine year olds, 85% of their parents said that their kids had asked for products seen in stores and Generation Alpha being the top end of that zero to 10 range.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't think that's new. I don't think it's new. I don't know what the 85% is for when Gen Z was that age range or when millennials or X. I don't know what the percentage is. It's too bad they didn't have it for us, but it's definitely not new. Just think about all the images you see of parents with a kid or guardians, someone with a kid at a grocery store and they're like, "Can we have this cereal," and "Can we have these chips?" It is not a new phenomenon.

Marcus Johnson:

No, it's probably similar across generations. It is interesting just to see at what age do they really start having real influence. But I think you're right, Suzy, it's probably been the similar age going back however many generations.

Oscar Orozco:

If it's not new, then why are we focusing so much on that, for example as a Gen Alpha type of personalized Gen alpha thing. That's what I was going to get to at the beginning, Marcus. I think I kind of disagree a little bit here. I'm not saying to completely ignore Alpha, but it's about something you said at the beginning which was, we're kind of not sure how to define them yet. They might be 9 to 13. I think that's one of the main problems at the moment that it's not very clearly defined. Gen Z goes out to 2012 as the youngest Gen Z. What we're saying is anyone that's an alpha at the oldest would be 10 years old right now and much younger. If we are thinking as marketers here, why don't we focus on maybe millennials as parents, which we have a lot of research on and we can do. My issue with Alphas is that they are still very young and we're not quite sure what Alphas are yet is my opinion.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

But it's an incomplete cohort, right?

Oscar Orozco:

Yes.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

And that it is defined. It's anybody who was born after 20, I think it's 2013. Obviously, yeah, it'll just keep going and it'll grow and I actually think that there is some true differences between Gen Alpha and the others, which is I didn't even occur to me, and I think about my brother's kids, one of them is in this generation pool-ish on the cusp. His social network is not Instagram assuming that he was allowed to be on those platforms, but it's gaming. He's allowed to be on ROBLOX and that's where they're making, I hope he's not, but I feel like that's where kids are learning things and meeting people and talking about trends, and maybe not at five years old, but they're on it. I think that's probably one of the biggest defining things.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, that was one of the observations from some of the research. We looked at gaming becoming the new social network, and they're using it to express creativity more than socializing. The article was saying Gen Z are content creators. Gen Alpha are becoming world builders because they're on platforms that cater to that Fortnite, Discord, ROBLOX.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, I think that's a little ridiculous. I kind of agree. I agree with both-

Oscar Orozco:

Thank you, Blake.

Blake Droesch:

... with Suzy and Oscar. Suzy's right about yes, it's never too early to start paying attention to what this behavior is, but at the same time, I agree with Oscar in the sense that A) yeah, they're using these gaming platforms because as Suzy mentioned, they're not allowed to be on other social networks. I'm sure there's an interest, but a lot of parents are now preventing younger children from being on these platforms. The whole thing about them being world builders because they play video games is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

If you go back to my childhood and the toys and the things that I played with, I'm thinking about Tamagotchis and the Fergie toy and Poo-Chi, the robot dog. Those are the things that I was engaging with as an 8 to 10 year old. If you were to extrapolate, then you would say that generation, they're going to be best friends with robots, and I'm not friends with any robots. That's the same thing. That's the same comparison as saying they're going to be world builders because they play ROBLOX instead of creating content on social media. It's just a weird extrapolation.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I just think that we're being too literal about the world builder, although I agree-

Blake Droesch:

Well, that's what they're saying.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

... kind of a silly ... Yeah, it's a bit of a silly thing. What I think is also very different from the other generations, which we haven't talked about is that this is a generation that is Web3 based. I'm obviously not saying metaverse on purpose. The Web3 based, where it's not a linear space anymore, the web, it's interactive and it's more and more information is at their fingertips in a more responsive sort of interactive dynamic way that they can see themselves in, which is different.

Oscar Orozco:

Yeah. I think what we should focus on are facts like realities, and so I appreciate that type of research. I think one of the articles you send was great research as always from Morning Consult. But they talked about things that are facts which are there more digitally inclined, it was accelerated because of the pandemic. They're the generation with the younger people using mobile devices more frequently at an earlier age, things like this. That's true. They're tech savvy, but the comments like being world builders or that they're more sensitive or they're more in tune with their mental health, things like this, I think it's a little early to say that. That's the distinction I think we should make there.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

But that's research. That's like persona building research. I think what's harder for this young age, it's that the parents are being surveyed, so it's the parents' impression that this is what's going to happen versus when you take the 16 plus year olds that are allowed to be surveyed directly. In that way, yes, maybe it's a little bit extra, but that's how personas are built. That's how they decide if you're a value-driven shopper and you're going out for the deal or if you prefer gamification. Technically it's valid research.

Oscar Orozco:

I just think that it's too early and they're not even teenagers yet. Yes, I understand the persona-driven research bit, but I think we need to maybe wait a few more years, because how we're defining it is some of these alphas are not even born yet. They're supposed to go be born out to 2025. So maybe we should wait a few more years, see how they develop as independent thinkers and maybe wait until they're at least teenagers.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, I'd love to look at some of the research from, if we could go back 10 years and see what people were saying about Gen Z and be like, how right were they about these really, really early insights? Because yeah, maybe there's some kernels of truth, but a lot of it is just, okay, these are 8 to 10 year olds and they're not fully formed by any means. So their habits and personality traits can and will change over time because a lot of this research is based on what is the world that they're growing up in, but we don't really know the world that they're going to be growing up in because they're only half grown at this point.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

But I would say that if you don't understand who they are today, we're not talking about their future state, we're talking about them today. We know that this particular generation has information at their fingertip earlier and earlier, and is part of the decision-making process in some way, shape, or form, then a brand would be silly not to worry about them and what type of images or what do they react to or how are they inspired? Because they are going to their parents and saying, obviously, they don't have money, so they're not buying it directly. But they are asking for things. A brand who is trying to get them and that doesn't understand them today is going to lose.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, I think I'm going to release a line of Napoleon action figures because they're all world builders. If these theories are correct, then they should be the hottest selling toy for the holiday season 2023.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Guys, you're being too literal.

Marcus Johnson:

The two biggest questions could be could be when should you pay your most attention to these guys? When's the right time to pay a decent amount of attention to this generation? And then how are they going to be different from other generations? Just the way we've seen with previous ones. What is interesting I think is that quite soon, I mean, Suzy, to your point, you want to pay some attention because if you're paying no attention before you know it, blink and they could be part of the labor force quite quickly. And there was some study from [inaudible] research looking at the labor force by 2030. So in seven years, Gen Z and Gen Alpha will account for nearly half of the labor force.

Now, most of that is Gen Z, admittedly, but Gen Alpha will account for about 11% and obviously, will be growing quite quickly and that's just in 2030. That's what we've got time for, for the story of the week. Time for the game of the week. Today's game, the hell is the point. Ry read out four stories and Suzy, Blake and Oscar give us their main takeaways. Okay answers equal one point, good answers equal two, and answers that give you the same feeling-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I'm saving $400 on a flight.

Marcus Johnson:

No, not that.

Blake Droesch:

That's a good one. How much time did you spend?

Oscar Orozco:

That would give you a good [inaudible].

Suzy Davidkhanian:

See? That was a good one.

Marcus Johnson:

But how long did it take you?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Inconsequential.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay, that means too long.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No. If you're watching TV and surfing to look for a better price, does that count as time spent?

Blake Droesch:

I don't know. Oscar, what [inaudible]?

Oscar Orozco:

You got to be a bit more efficient than that. I don't think that's sufficient enough. You got to focus on it solely.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

See? See, Marcus? Then I would say three hours max, big max. Big, big max.

Oscar Orozco:

Yeah, then it'd be worth it.

Blake Droesch:

You said you spent two weeks doing this?

Oscar Orozco:

[inaudible] something about that.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I mean, but I was watching TV.

Marcus Johnson:

How many sites did you go to? I rest my case.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Less than 10. Honestly, less than 10.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay. If you're near double figures, it's a problem. Answers that give you the same feeling as mint choc chip. Yeah?

Blake Droesch:

Nausea.

Marcus Johnson:

No.

Oscar Orozco:

Yuck.

Victoria:

I think some blasphemy happening right now. Come one.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

You know what? I love mint chocolate chip.

Marcus Johnson:

Sorry, Victoria. Say that again.

Victoria:

This is some blasphemy happening right now.

Marcus Johnson:

Thank you. Exactly.

Victoria:

You ever had an Oreo thin mint flavor? It's delightful.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, thank God, Victoria.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

It sounds horrible.

Marcus Johnson:

Thank goodness, you're here. Forget the rest of you. Just-

Oscar Orozco:

It's like candy, like ...

Marcus Johnson:

Just be around. Me and Victoria are going to play the game.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

We lost.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. We all lost. Victoria wins.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I already lost [inaudible].

Marcus Johnson:

Victoria wins. Congratulations to Victoria.

Victoria:

Oh, my God. You guys, thank you so much.

Marcus Johnson:

I guess we should play the bloody game even though you guys have terrible ice cream preferences. Yeah, answers that leave you with mint choc chip feelings. They get you three points. You get 20 seconds to answer before you hear this. If you ramble, Suzy, I will brandish a yellow card and negative two points for you. Two yellows gets you the dreaded red, and then sending off. Or in our case, you have to hover awkwardly in the background in silence until we finish playing. Most points equals belt plus last word, let's play.

We start with Oscar. Round one. Delivery without the box. Amazon wants to deliver your order without a box as it aims to reduce costs and reach its goals related to its climate impact. Sebastian Herrera of The Journal, he notes that chief executive, Andy Jassy hopes a reduction in packaging will appeal to customers who are put off by the volume of Amazon branded boxes they receive and discard every week just 11% of items. Amazon delivers now arrive without extra packaging or what the company calls, ships in own container. But Oscar, delivery without the box, what's the point?

Oscar Orozco:

I don't love it. I'm sure this is great for Amazon. It'll reduce costs. They're passing them on to the manufacturer. I mean, ethically I can understand it as well, although I would argue aren't we recycling those boxes? Aren't they being used again, isn't that the point of them? I just think what it boils down to is giving the consumers the choice. It should be up to them. If they want to get rid of the box, let them decide. But if not, please provide privacy for what we order.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I actually think it's very gimmicky. I agree, Oscar, in that really, what's the point? I think before they start thinking about the boxes, they should start thinking about the number of boxes that they're sending us. Yesterday, I made an order for books and it's coming in three different boxes because it's coming three different days from different distribution centers. So they should start with that. And then, I also think that it's actually not optional. They're doing it a little bit today, but it defaults. So I was checking after reading the article, I was checking. It defaults to this weird new way of doing their delivery, and I don't like it. I think that there are a lot of other things we should be doing first.

Marcus Johnson:

Blake.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, I definitely agree. I think it's a bit of a cop out because they aren't doing things like optimizing the number of boxes. They are still really prone to sending a tiny item in a big box where if they really wanted to optimize the way that they are using their boxes, they would start there rather than just stripping it in general. I totally agree with you. I bought a vinyl record off of Amazon in May of 2020. I was going back in my purchase history after reading this article and they sent it to my apartment without a box and it was bent. It was really disappointing. Not only for privacy, but privacy for things like that where they can just, they send a product that need to have a little added protection, but it doesn't. Just a bad experience for the customer.

Marcus Johnson:

Everyone's thinking it. What did you buy?

Blake Droesch:

I bought Freddie Gibbs' record. Freddie Gibbs & Madlib.

Marcus Johnson:

You can stay. Well played. All right. I've got two solutions for you guys here to solve this problem. One, I've talked about on the show before a long time ago, and another one I just came up with. Here's the two ways you can get around all the boxes. One, why don't we have different size, they're called round trip plastic totes. They're the boxes you get with the plastic storage bins with lid that folds together on top. You guys know the ones, right?

Blake Droesch:

Mm-hmm.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yep.

Oscar Orozco:

Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Marcus Johnson:

Why don't we have different sizes of those? Imagine if you had 10 different sizes of those, they could fit together really well or five different sizes of those companies could rent them the way they do now or maybe they buy them. But you probably want to rent them. Then, you could use them to ship things. Folks could take the thing out of the box. Maybe you could seal them a certain way. Folks could take the things out of the box, then put them outside the house for pickup like you did with trash collection and then they would get delivered back to the facility, and then they would buy them again, and you would do that. You wouldn't have to ever create cardboard or waste cardboard boxes.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't know if you're serious, but it is an operational nightmare when you're talking about-

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, that would be so expensive.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

How come?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

They wouldn't be saving money, that's for sure.

Blake Droesch:

The cost of fulfillment, especially when you're Amazon and you're trying to optimize it and be as fast as possible is incredibly, incredibly expensive. In order that that app basically to have a shipping container, be able to go from the home address all the way back to a fulfillment center and making sure that they're not being overly concentrated in specific areas would be really expensive and kind of a logistical nightmare.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

The other thing I would add, one of the other things that they're optimizing is also the number of touch points that the package goes through, which by the way is not new ship direct from vendor. But if the ship direct from vendor is in the box that that vendor has produced instead of the vendor putting it into the Amazon box and then shipping it, that's saved manpower as well in terms of time, which impacts not obviously the environment, but it impacts Amazon's bottom line. It's a bit gimmicky, this whole thing.

Marcus Johnson:

What I'm describing is basically what we do for 90% of goods around the world. We put everything in shipping containers. We put the thing, if you want to ship something from one country to the other, you put it in a big sized container that's standardized and you ship that to another country, and then they take it out of the container and then they ship it back. And that's exactly how shipping works.

Blake Droesch:

Right. But It's going from point A to point B.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah. And it's like tablets of stuff, so everything is perfectly aligned, fits perfectly into the container. They don't need to put extra plastic or bubble wrap. It's all perfectly measured, the pallets, not tablets, pallets.

Blake Droesch:

Pallets, yes.

Marcus Johnson:

You guys are out on that one.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

Fair enough. I thought I'd solve that. They could be collapsible as well, but nevermind. I've got another one for you. You can install delivery bins at homes. So basically oversized mailboxes, and then you could bring the stuff, take it out of the box that you've brought it in as opposed to leaving on your doorstep without a box like, Oscar was saying, can be horrifying. You could put it in this oversized mailbox and it could be locked.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

What makes me sad about that option is because in one of the articles that someone was saying how they could see it working for books, but I think that's the worst idea. Imagine how dirty your book is going to get and all the pages are going to get bent. Unless the bookmaker puts it in a plastic bag, and then we're wasting more resources. So I don't know that there's a [inaudible].

Marcus Johnson:

I'm not saying put it in a trash bin. This would be just like a clean ... It's like a big-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah, I know. But just think about the boxes that come to your house today, the way they are, how dirty they get. Sometimes it rains and they're half wet. There's mud on them. They're gross, some of them.

Blake Droesch:

Who's going to pay for the installation of these giant mailboxes? Because I don't see the people that own my building springing for that. It's hard enough to get my drain unclogged. They're not going to want pay for that.

Marcus Johnson:

I'd buy one for the sake of the environment.

Oscar Orozco:

I would, too. I think that might be a better idea than the first one, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay.

Oscar Orozco:

But yeah, I had to think that one through a bit, yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

You have to shoot the other one down [inaudible].

Oscar Orozco:

There's some potential, a little bit of potential.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. Also, like most Amazon products are below five pounds in weight, so we're not delivering just couches. I thought most things would fit. It's basically just like Amazon lockers have now, but at home. It's the same concept. All right, fine. You guys are frightfully pessimistic. I'm just trying to save the planet. Nevermind.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

The thing is, it's like you have to find ways to save planet that-

Marcus Johnson:

No, it's fine. It's fine, Suzy. You guys live in your cardboard-filled world where it's wasted all the time.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I recycle.

Marcus Johnson:

Do you?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Absolutely.

Marcus Johnson:

But you can only recycle so much because sometimes boxes, they don't get put in the right recycling thing or sometimes if they get dirty, then people won't ... They won't be able to recycle it. And if you recycle, that still uses up energy and it's still more wasteful than not.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yes, I agree.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. All right. I'm trying to save the world, but I was shut down.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I thought you were going with the reversible because some of them are doing it, like the reversible bags like when you open the bag and you turn it around, you can put your item back, to ship it back if you were trying to return it or the SodaStream boxes you rip off. It's like, you rip off my address label and it's their address label, and then I send the cans back to them, the canisters. There are definitely ways that we can help save the environment. It just has to be really easy for the customer because as we know from research, they'll say one thing, but then once you have to pay for it, it's a whole different thing. Unless it's legislation.

Marcus Johnson:

This is also how groceries get delivered, at least in the UK. If Waitrose comes to your door, it's a supermarket, they bring all the items in a plastic crate and they bring them to your door. You take the crate, you put it in your house, you take the things out, you give them the crate back. Now admittedly, you have to be there for that, so you could argue that that's a problem. But they don't have cardboard or plastic bags. They bring your items loose in a green crate. This is exactly the crate I described, and they hand it to you and you take them out. So that is happening in some form or fashion, at least in supermarkets in the UK.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

And they wait for you to unload the box and then they take the box back?

Marcus Johnson:

Yep, yep. It just takes a minute.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

They're just less margin conscious.

Blake Droesch:

And there're just fewer people doing it. I mean, the demand for delivery, in that sense is already strained for a lot of grocery companies that if you made that the fulfillment method for everything, it just wouldn't be able to keep up.

Marcus Johnson:

You know what, negative 10 for everyone. A bunch of pessimists.

Blake Droesch:

Negative 10 for bad ideas, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson:

Unbelievable! These are two great ideas. I'm getting nothing from you guys.

Oscar Orozco:

Kick him out. I'm listening because I'm liking some of what I'm hearing, yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

Thank you, Oscar. You're just trying to get points back. It's not happening. Round two.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Not fair.

Marcus Johnson:

What's happening on TikTok live? Caroline Mimbs Nyce of The Atlantic writes that the live streaming section is a nonstop online carnival, TikTok live that is, weird, flashy, maximalist, and messy and big business with folks estimating that users are spending billions of dollars there. Mia Sato of The Verge notes that TikTok will host a music contest, think The Voice called Give Me the Mic that will be held on TikTok live streams. And when incorporate live voting from fans, the winner of the US competition gets 50,000 diamonds. No one knows what the hell that means. TikTok's in-app currency is what diamonds are, but they can be exchanged for real money. We just don't know how much real money. One estimate suggests two and a half thousand dollars. But Suzy, what's happening on TikTok live? What's the point?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I think TikTok is going for world domination in every industry possible and is now moving into music. I think that they are doing a very good job at copying what others are doing ,and then innovating on that and moving forward. For example, this competition sounds a little bit like a Eurovision style online where it's live voting, that's immediate gratification for their viewers. Yes, it's not a lot of money potentially for some folks the $2,000. But imagine the number of people that are watching you and following you and that you can monetize on for future use.

Blake Droesch:

I think some of the odd behavior that we're seeing on live streaming is definitely, it's not new to TikTok or I guess it's new to TikTok but not new to social media. People have been doing weird stuff on streams, on Twitch and YouTube for a while. But I think the takeaway here is that for TikTok, they've been trying to get the live streaming component off the ground for a while and this notion of donating some form of money to the creators could be a stepping stone to live shopping, which is this gold mine that people that all these platforms have been looking for, for years. Even though it seems a little ... It's very much in its infancy right now, it could be something to really keep a close eye on for the future.

Marcus Johnson:

Oscar.

Oscar Orozco:

I think it's a brilliant idea as Suzy and Blake said, this is a [inaudible].

Marcus Johnson:

This is a terrific idea. I'm trying to save the planet. This is a brilliant idea?

Oscar Orozco:

It is. Blake and Suzy said TikTok is trying to figure out what translates well outside of China in terms of live streaming, and I think live entertainment like this is the way to go. I looked into this. When American Idol, The Voice and The Masked Singer are all on at the same time, they can combine two upwards of 15 million viewers in the US. People love live singing competitions, live entertainment like this. It feels like the right idea for them.

Marcus Johnson:

The halfway point, Suzy, well out in front with six, Oscar with three, Blake with a measly two.

Victoria:

Nice. That never happened.

Marcus Johnson:

[inaudible] moved around.

Oscar Orozco:

Three?

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, that's right. I said it. We move to round three. We start with Blake for fast fashion looking to repairs. "Fast fashion aims to mend its image with repairs," writes Trefor Moss of The Wall Street Journal. He notes that brands are encouraging shoppers to patch up their old clothes instead of throwing them out as they face growing environmental scrutiny. Mr. Moss points to a number of examples. Zara, this year is launching nationwide repair services in several of its largest markets. Uniqlo is adding repair studios to a number of stores and H&M owned cos is working with a startup to help customers fix damaged dresses and jackets. But Blake, fast fashion looking to repairs, what's the point?

Blake Droesch:

I guess the point here is that it's really just going to be sort of PR for these fast fashion companies unless people decide that they really want to use it. But I think that the consumer appeal for fast fashion is really to get the latest season styles and that's not really conducive to patching up what was in trend a season ago. I don't really think that consumers who are into fast fashion for those reasons are going to be incentivized to use these services very much.

Marcus Johnson:

Oscar.

Oscar Orozco:

Yeah. I'm very skeptical. I think it's primarily a marketing ploy. I mean, the fast fashion brands are being forced to do something here. I just think that most people won't be using the services. There was one quote on the price there. Are you really going to pay $13 to mend the hole in a shirt that costs you 25 or 30? I don't think so. Plus clothes, it's not just about a hole. The colors fade and the textiles are stretched out and things just get old. I think it's mainly that. I would highlight more the fact that these programs also allow for products to be donated and potentially, even sold for a small price. I think that's more of what consumers will be using, not getting anything fixed for an added price.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Just in general, we're hearing a lot of buzz around this. Some of it is legislation driven, some of it is the UN trying to get people on the same page around the world. I think it's interesting that Europe is ahead of us here in the US. It is something that they've been doing for a long time. It's something that a lot of brands have been doing for a long time, especially the higher end brands, because why would you spend a lot of money on something and not get it fixed? Here, like Oscar is noting, it's a quality issue.

They are trying to do some cool things. Like I thought the patches that they're trying to sell on H&M to try and do your own with tutorials was kind of clever, although my mom patches on our jeans when we were kids. Again, it's a revival of what we were already doing and I thought it was interesting because it is an operational nightmare. This idea that they are going to be able to scale on their own, I think is slim to none. It's interesting that there is a company that thought about this in 2019 called The Seam and they're partnering with that.

Marcus Johnson:

All right, folks, very good round. We move to round four. Double points, round four. Suzy's still out in front, but by less. She's got eight, Oscar on six, and Blake with five. Double points on round four, so still all to play for. We're talking about the future of website design. Site design shakeups are helping retail brands increase conversion, decrease return rates, and build lasting fruitful relationships with their most loyal customers rights. Rebecca Deczynski of Inc, she notes a few ways businesses are transforming eCommerce from gamification and quizzes that let brands ask questions and learn about customers in a way that's baked into the flow of the experience to image recognition technology that uses AI to attribute more accurate customer-centric keywords to products at scale. For Oscar, the future of website design, what's the point?

Oscar Orozco:

I do think that retailers sometimes focus too much of their budget and energy on apps only. I think that there are many retailers that could improve their web experience. A few come to mind, but I'll just name one. Amazon. Amazon's webpage is horrible. I'm sorry Amazon. I love you, but it really is. I think this makes a lot of sense and there's so many great ideas out there. I think of Nike actually as one brand that does a good job. What do they do? High level of personalization, loyalty programs, and just easier filtering to see products and sizes, and what's sold out and what isn't. There's a ton that can be done and I think many need to focus their energy on that.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

This future of site design article was not futuristic in any way, shape, or form. It was all buzz and nothing new. The biggest thing I learned, which is something we're studying for, so as Blake knows, I've been keeping a closer eye on this. The number of touch points that someone goes through before they make a purchase, according to one of the people in the articles is seven to eight, which I thought was kind of a lot.

But at the same time, we were just talking about buying a flight, which is a very expensive thing and for some, it's only four things. Seven to eight for a pair of jeans seems like a lot of touch points. But as Oscar said, you need to have an easy to use, convenient with improved search, all of this easy, fast-loading pages, user-generated content, nothing was new. It's obvious that all that stuff leads to better conversion.

Marcus Johnson:

Blake.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, I agree. The premise that brands and retailers should focus on the website, the desktop website is very valid. But a lot of the examples that the article put forth were like Suzy said, very gimmicky and that just ease of use and just having a customer interface that's easy to find the items that you want, that's easy to filter and search. These are things that have been table stakes for a long time, but it's something that most people fail at. I think that the shiny penny of having an integrated user-generated content to keep people within your ecosystem is quite a pipe dream for many brands and retailers that just don't have the basics down correctly.

Marcus Johnson:

All right, folks, end of the game. Let's count the points.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Drum roll.

Marcus Johnson:

A drum roll. You know how it goes. Who won? Oh, oh! Sound effects. Random sound effects. Stop. Okay, we're back. A drum roll. Who could it be?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I didn't get that.

Marcus Johnson:

It's Suzy. Round of applause for Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No.

Marcus Johnson:

The crowd.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, my gosh. I'm blushing.

Marcus Johnson:

Enough. Enough of those. Suzy wins, 12 points. Oscar 10, Blake-

Oscar Orozco:

Well done. Well done.

Marcus Johnson:

... let's just say less. All right. Suzy, congratulations. You get the championship belt and of course the last word.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, my God. I'm so excited. Actually, my last word is a question. I would like our listeners to write to us. And then Marcus, I would like to hear the answers as to how many websites do you go to before you purchase an international flight? That is my question.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy spent six months booking her most recent vacation is why we're talking about this.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah, basically. I had everybody-

Marcus Johnson:

Six months is too long.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah. Everybody in my life was like, "Did you book it? Did you book it?" "No, I'm not done researching yet." Can you imagine what that means for Insider Intelligence research? Can you imagine how thoughtful and how we go all out and find the right information to help you run your business?

Blake Droesch:

No one else does that. It's just Suzy.

Oscar Orozco:

I took two hours to decide on a restaurant the other day on for an upcoming travel as well.

Marcus Johnson:

Jesus. Come on, people. Just walk around and pick one.

Oscar Orozco:

Yeah, I agree with Suzy. It says something about our research here.

Marcus Johnson:

It says something about you two. That's what I said something about don't drag me and Blake down with you. Go on Blake. You got something to add?

Blake Droesch:

I'll book a flight quickly so I can spend the time picking the food. I'm way more inclined to overthink restaurant choices on a vacation than I am on a flight. But that's just me.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That's so interesting because I go and then I'm like, I wonder where people are going. I'm going to go where the restaurant looks busy, and then that's it.

Marcus Johnson:

But wait. But Blake, you were saying picking a restaurant on the vacation.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, on a vacation trip.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

For the vacation.

Marcus Johnson:

Oscar means just in life, don't you, Oscar? Is that what you're getting at?

Oscar Orozco:

No, no, no. That was for vacation.

Marcus Johnson:

No, it wasn't.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Nice try.

Oscar Orozco:

[inaudible] making sure I pick the right place.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Wait. But you guys book your restaurants ahead of time like, see this [inaudible].

Oscar Orozco:

You got to do the research.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, that's where the research goes.

Blake Droesch:

I mean, there are a few places like Paris, I feel like you could kind of just walk in anywhere. But most of the time, even in places like Italy, if you're a little laissez faire about it and just looking around, you can get a bad meal. You only have so many meals on vacation, so you want them all to be good. A bad meal at home is not great, but a bad meal on vacation, that's devastating.

Marcus Johnson:

I'm learning a lot about you guys.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Wait. Do you ever go to this, like I sometimes go to the same restaurant twice if I thought it was really good.

Blake Droesch:

Yes, I'll do that on the last night of vacation. Sometimes you double back, you go to the one that you like the best.

Marcus Johnson:

Love that.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah.

Oscar Orozco:

You guys are such tourists. I love it.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Maybe it just depends on how long you're there for.

Oscar Orozco:

I would never do that. Reservations, guys. You got to contact the restaurant weeks in advance.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, my gosh.

Oscar Orozco:

You got to get your name on it.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I think Oscar is going at these Michelin-starred restaurants, that's why.

Marcus Johnson:

I told you he's changed now. He's fancy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I like my vegetables tweezered on my plate.

Marcus Johnson:

You're the worst person.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Marcus Johnson:

All right. Let's move on. Time now for dinner party data. This is the part of the show where we tell you about the most interesting thing we've learned this week. Let's start with Blake. Oh, sorry. No, Suzy won. She's supposed to go first. Sorry. Sorry, Blake.

Blake Droesch:

Nope, no problem.

Marcus Johnson:

Go on, Suzy. We have to start with you.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I was trying to find the statistic around how many websites do people go to and I couldn't find it.

Marcus Johnson:

No, I'm moving on. Blake, what you got?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I wanted to ask you, because Marcus and I talked about this yesterday.

Marcus Johnson:

At length.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Do you all believe the time is money? Do you know who said that first-ish? Who we believe said it first?

Marcus Johnson:

Me. Was it me?

Oscar Orozco:

I've no idea.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No. Benjamin Franklin.

Marcus Johnson:

Benjamin Franklin.

Blake Droesch:

Typical.

Oscar Orozco:

Of course.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Advice to a young tradesman and it's become an inspiration for a lot of people. But the question is, what does that mean to you and what are the different resources that you are pitting against time? My question is from a blog post, so not at all rooted in any research.

Marcus Johnson:

Right. Perfect.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Someone wrote about five things that are more valuable than money and it made me laugh, the list, so I wanted to share it with you. Can you think about what's the number one thing that's more valuable than money?

Blake Droesch:

Love.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Time. Okay, time. Number two.

Marcus Johnson:

You guys are probably going to say, peanut butter.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Friendship.

Marcus Johnson:

Ugh, yuck.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Three, physical wellbeing. Again, this is according to one person. So listeners, if you are going to write in, tell us, too, what you think is more valuable than money. Four, wisdom. And five, this one's my favorite.

Marcus Johnson:

God, here we go.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Romantic love.

Oscar Orozco:

Oh, wow.

Marcus Johnson:

None of them are more valuable.

Oscar Orozco:

I don't know about that one.

Marcus Johnson:

It's too dark, Marcus. It's too dark.

Oscar Orozco:

Or wisdom.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I will leave you with for global tourism. One in 10 jobs are in tourism around the world and it is 10% of our economy, global economy.

Marcus Johnson:

Very nice, very good indeed. Blake, you're up.

Blake Droesch:

I've been watching a lot of James Bond movies recently and a lot of James Bonds, most specifically Daniel Craig, they tend to bumble a lot. I've been watching them with the subtitles on even though it's in English. I found at the same time this YouGov survey that just came out about how 38% of US adults said that they most frequently watch TV with the subtitles on, even in a language that they know. Interesting enough, you'd think that older people would be more inclined to do this because as you get old, the hearing gets worse and it's harder to understand things going on on TV. But actually no. 63% of 18 to 29 year olds typically watch TV with subtitles on, whereas just 30% of those 65 and older do so.

Marcus Johnson:

I actually happened to see that yesterday, that research. I thought it was fascinating how high it was and it was still pretty high across older generations. But yeah, the young people are over-indexing. But I thought the reasons why was that understanding what they're saying better, better comprehension and accents. That's why I had it on for Peaky Blinders and Birmingham, the town where that shot is an hour away from where I grew up. Couldn't understand a word. But yeah, I thought that was fascinating as well. Do you guys subtitles?

Blake Droesch:

It depends. If I need to, yeah, then I do find a lot of movies where the actors mumble and it's better to just have the accents on.

Marcus Johnson:

The music's really loud sometimes.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, every [inaudible].

Oscar Orozco:

It's part of the entertainment for me. I don't know. It's nice to lean into it sometimes. It's good to have it. Why not?

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay, moving on.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I think it's an age thing. Honestly, I think it's a habit and age thing. When my nieces come, they turn it on. But when they leave, I turn it back off.

Marcus Johnson:

It's because of social media, I guess. They're used to seeing them on social media.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't know. Or maybe they're multitasking, but that's even harder to multitask and read. I am not sure why they do it. Outside of what you guys just said, which you don't need for with the Kardashians.

Marcus Johnson:

Maybe. Oscar, you're up.

Oscar Orozco:

Mine's kind of a dinner party/just a plug for something I wanted to talk about. It's going to be fun. I don't know if you guys know, but the Women's World Cup is happening right now.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, yes. I do, sir.

Oscar Orozco:

You do. You do.

Marcus Johnson:

Guess who's in the final?

Oscar Orozco:

I know. That's why we need to talk about it here.

Marcus Johnson:

England [inaudible] Spain. Bring it on, Oscar

Oscar Orozco:

It's Spain versus England on Sunday at 6:00 in the morning here on the Eastern Coast. So please watch. Please support the game.

Marcus Johnson:

Support England. Don't support the game.

Oscar Orozco:

We'll see about that. We'll see about that. But because it's a dinner party, I mean, I want to throw a couple facts in there. Does anyone know what rendition this is? How many Women's World Cups we've had?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

How many men's one have there been?

Marcus Johnson:

Is it nine?

Oscar Orozco:

It's nine. I'm not quite sure, but more than double that, probably. It's been going on since the '30s, so nine. The first one was in 1991, in the '90s, so it's very, very recent. It's the first tournament that has 32 teams, so the same amount as the men's tournament for the first time ever.

Marcus Johnson:

They're just about to up their capacity, right, to 48?

Oscar Orozco:

That's true. They're going to go up to 48 in 2026, I believe. So, exactly. Then it'll be off again. But I'm sure the Women's World Cup will gain more and more teams as more teams play the game. Do we know how many countries have won both Men's and Women's World Cups?

Marcus Johnson:

Eight, I guess.

Oscar Orozco:

Eight. That's a big number. No, it's one country. Germany.

Marcus Johnson:

Oh. I thought you meant as in count the teams that have won the men's, count the teams that have won the women's. You mean both?

Oscar Orozco:

No, no, in terms of both.

Marcus Johnson:

Sorry.

Oscar Orozco:

Yeah, both.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay. That one's a stupid guess. Yeah, okay.

Oscar Orozco:

Yeah. [inaudible] a little confused by that one. But yes, it's only Germany. Germany has won both the Women's and the Men's World Cup. But as you were saying, Marcus, this Sunday, Spain or England will be crowned the winner.

Marcus Johnson:

England.

Oscar Orozco:

Whoever wins will be ... We'll see.

Marcus Johnson:

Probably Spain.

Oscar Orozco:

... will be the second country to have won both the Men's and the Women's World Cup. It'll be on Fox, 6:00 AM. I have no more stats there, but as I said, it's a bit of a plug. So really, really excited about the final. It was a great tournament.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, a great one. Two billion people around the world tuning into the Women's World Cup, so be one of them. It's been fantastic. Very nice. All right, folks. I've got one for you real quick. Talking about theme parks, amusement parks, same thing. This is from the TEA, the Themed Entertainment Association and AECOM 2022 Theme Index and Museum Index, the Global Attractions attendance report. That's where this information's from. Five facts for you about theme parks. Last year, 2022, nearly 200 million folks attended the top 25 amusement or theme parks around the world. That's nearly 80% of pre-pandemic 2019 levels. Number two, can you guys guess the number one theme park in the world by attendance?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yes. Canada's Wonderland.

Marcus Johnson:

Absolutely not.

Oscar Orozco:

I forget the name. Disney's [inaudible].

Blake Droesch:

I think it's Disney Paris.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

It might be Tokyo.

Marcus Johnson:

No. Tokyo's up there. Number five, Universal's Islands of Adventure, Florida, 11 million. Tokyo Disneyland is 12 million. Then, it's Universal Studios Japan, 12.5. Disneyland Park in California is 17 million. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney in Florida, 17 million is number one, just over 17 million.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

How did Canada's Wonderland not make it on that list?

Marcus Johnson:

It wasn't even close. Point number three, Disney Resorts account for eight of the top 10 amusement or theme parks in the world by attendance. Florida number four. Florida accounts for six of the top 12 parks and one third of the top 25 visits worldwide. Just the state of Florida. If you look at just the US or just North America, 2022 attendance at the top 20 North American amusement and theme parks was 140 million. That's nearly 90% of pre-pandemic levels. Waterpark attendance in North America, over 12 million a year was 80% of pre-pandemic levels. Disney's Typhoon Lagoon in Florida, top the list.

Oscar Orozco:

I've never been to any of these. Can you believe that?

Marcus Johnson:

Really?

Oscar Orozco:

Terrible childhood. Yeah, no. I was not-

Marcus Johnson:

Oscar's parents, if you're listening. So, sorry he said that. What a terrible child. That's what we've got time for for this episode. Thank you so much to my guests. Thank you to Oscar.

Oscar Orozco:

Thank you for having me, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson:

Of course, sir. Thank you to Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

Yes, indeed. Thank you to Blake.

Blake Droesch:

It's been a pleasure.

Marcus Johnson:

Absolutely.

Blake Droesch:

Okay.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, me too. I want something different to say. What can I say?

Marcus Johnson:

You can say, "Marcus, that was a brilliant job hosting." No one ever thanks the host like, "Great job hosting, Marcus. You did really well. You're really good at your job."

Oscar Orozco:

That's true. Never heard of that one.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Marcus, thanks for having me and-

Marcus Johnson:

Oh, whatever. Moving on.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

... doing such a good job.

Marcus Johnson:

It's not the same. I told you to say it. Congratulations though, Suzy. You did win the game of the week. Thank you too, Victoria, who edits the show, James, who copy edits it, and Stewart who runs the team. Thanks to everyone for listening in. You can head to Instagram @behindthenumbers_podcast for photos of what we look like. We'll see you guys on Monday for the Behind the Numbers Daily, an e-market podcast made possible by Awin. Happy Weekend.

Blake Droesch:

Wait, Oscar. Do you get your laundry sent out and wow, big flex.

Oscar Orozco:

Yes, yes. I send it out and then [inaudible].

Marcus Johnson:

I know. Do you see that little humble brag? Sorry, guys.

Oscar Orozco:

I have [inaudible].

Marcus Johnson:

My laundry just got delivered. I'm on the break.

Oscar Orozco:

I also have someone else in the house picking it up.