The Weekly Listen: Brand logos you can feel, can Amazon’s new “Shark-Tank”-style show catch on, and more

Audio by Marcus Johnson, Blake Droesch, Suzy Davidkhanian, and Sarah Marzano | Sep 27, 2024

Episode Transcript:

Marcus Johnson:

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Hello everyone and thanks for hanging out with us for the Behind the Numbers Weekly Listen and the EMARKETER podcast. This is the Friday show that is easily entertained. So Suzy just discovered emojis.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Come on, stop.

Marcus Johnson:

Where have you been? How have you just discovered them?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That is not what I said. That is not what I said. I said my new Android phone, which is the best, has emojis that are dynamic. So if I send a heart, it's like pounding. But not if it's part of a text. If you just send an emoji by itself, it's moving. And I think that's very cool.

Marcus Johnson:

She said emojis, those things that were invented in 1999. Suzy is the only person-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That's not what I said-

Marcus Johnson:

In America who still uses floppy disks-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I said moving emojis.

Marcus Johnson:

To save her work.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Hey.

Marcus Johnson:

I'm your host Marcus Johnson, in today's show, haptic Logos, whatever that means. Will retailer game shows catch on? What can we expect from J.Crew's new print catalog? What should Peloton do to get back on track? And what are people actually doing when working from home?

Join me for this episode, we have three people, let's meet them. We start with our Vice President of Content and the person who heads up our retail and e-Commerce desk, based in New York, it's Suzy Davidkhanian.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Hello. Thanks for having me back.

Marcus Johnson:

Hello there. Of course, of course. We're also joined by one of our Senior Analysts on that very retail team, he is also based in New York and his name is Blake Droesch.

Blake Droesch:

Hey everyone, good to be here.

Marcus Johnson:

Hey Chap. And finally we have our Principal Analyst who covers everything retail media based in that same city, it's Sarah Marzano.

Sarah Marzano:

Hi Marcus. Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

What do we have in store for you today? We have a story of the week, we will have a game today and we end with some random trivia. But we start, of course, with the story of the week.

All right, we're talking about haptic logos. I'll try to explain. "MasterCard enters a new frontier in sensory marketing, a haptic logo," writes Rebecca Stewart of Adweek. Haptic technology uses pressure and signals to replicate the signals human nerves process when we touch something. So that's what haptics are. Adweek's Ms. Stewart explains that, "The brand is debuting Mastercard, a haptic logo, a distinctive series of vibrations that customers will "feel" via their phone when shopping online or using a payment terminal. The goal here is to reinforce the brand and reassure customers when a transaction is pending at checkout, as the vibration is synced with MasterCard's Sonic logo." That's the jingle that you hear when the brand appears on the screen, like the McDonald's da-da-da-da-da, like that one. It will initially launch in Latin America and Eastern Europe.

Blake, I'll go to you first.

Blake Droesch:

Sure.

Marcus Johnson:

Haptic logo ... what was that?

Blake Droesch:

I said sure.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay, good. Thanks for agreeing. Haptic logos, what's your take on this story?

Blake Droesch:

So when we were discussing this story behind the scenes, before the recording, I said that I had a great analogy as to why I think this is going to work. So I'm going to say it right now, I hope it doesn't flop. But-

Marcus Johnson:

Best of luck.

Blake Droesch:

You know when playing Solitaire on the computer, no one plays Solitaire on the computer because Solitaire is actually a fun game. They play it because when they win, they want to hear the sound of the cards reshuffling and the cool waterfall logo that happens to the completed deck of cards. There's a sense of satisfaction, like a little bit of sense of satisfaction there that comes from something like a little jingle or a little vibration. And I think especially if someone is making a purchase for a piece of clothing or maybe an electronic item that they're excited about, they're going to associate that vibration with a positive experience. And that is actually going to do well for MasterCard. So yes, is it maybe a little gimmicky? Sure. But gimmicks work in advertising all the time. They work in marketing all the time. So I think that this is something that's interesting, it's simple and I think it's really going to work well for them.

Marcus Johnson:

What Blake actually said was that he had several ingenious takes.

Sarah Marzano:

That was the promise.

Marcus Johnson:

I'll let you be the judge.

Sarah Marzano:

I'm not disappointed by that analogy. The second you started talking about playing, I knew where you were going. I'm curious if any of our younger listeners are people playing Solitaire on their desktop.

Marcus Johnson:

Younger listeners or people with lives?

Blake Droesch:

I'm young, first of all, by the way, just because I play Solitaire.

Sarah Marzano:

Yeah, Blake is pissed.

Marcus Johnson:

It's a fair take though. Suzy? Agree?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So the thing though is it's not new, right? There are lots of brands that use senses, one of the five senses, to make sort of an association that's emotional to help breed loyalty. What I don't know enough about is how is this sound ... I mean, I know it's the MasterCard sound. Which I'm not very familiar with, though I do have a MasterCard, I haven't heard the MasterCard sound. How is it different than the bank that's issuing? I get pinged from my bank to tell me that a transaction happened. So will I associate the MasterCard sound to trust and security, maybe, but I'm already getting that from a different provider. So I don't know what added benefit it has for me.

But I do love that they're thinking outside of the box and that they have a whole budget set up for crazy innovation is what they're calling it. So that they can come up with things that no one is judging ahead of time to really try and move the needle in terms of an experience, that is potentially different than their original brand ethos. So for that, I love it. For the distinction between what, for example, Visa is doing or other brands are doing in this space, I'm a little bit less certain about.

Marcus Johnson:

So there were some numbers in this article, this Adweek piece, and it was suggesting that these multi-sensory efforts appear to be paying off. Internal Mastercard data showing that when the unique 1.3 second sequence of notes is presented at checkout, the company claims that it boosts consumer trust and makes customers 80% more likely to return to the merchant utilizing the sound, those [inaudible 00:07:00] of the Adweek. I guess it depends on when the sound occurs, is it when the transaction's actually pending? Is it right after to tell you that it's been completed? Not a ton of details.

Sarah Marzano:

There's two different ... there's the sonic confirmation, which is a sound that plays, and then there's the haptic, which is a vibration that happens on your phone. And I was reading that they launched their sonic logo five years ago or so, and they're joining Visa and I think it was American Express had done the same. But it hasn't really caught on here for a slew of reasons. At retail, a lot of the terminals weren't equipped to play a sound and that's how it was designed was for the terminal that was owned by the retailer to play it. So it runs into that kind of like the technology at retail issue that sort of comes up quite a bit. And also retailers didn't want the sound playing in their spaces, they were seeing it as disruptive.

So I thought what was interesting about the notion of a vibration is first of all, it sounds like it's designed with mobile phones in mind, with purchases made on mobile phones. Whether that's online or at a payment terminal. So it's going to play ... or it's going to happen, I don't know if you still use the word play, like on your phone. And it does feel new and interesting, and I think it's a nice way to sort of continue this sort of multi-year endeavor that MasterCard has undertaken to really lean in on multi-sensory marketing. I'm not sure what working necessarily means, I'm curious if consumers are going to like it or find it disruptive and mute it. But I definitely think it's interesting.

And Suzy, I agree with you that I loved the idea that they have a budget set aside for innovation. So it's less about climbing an uphill battle to sort of court dollars. It's more about like, hey, we're going to play, we're going to experiment, we're going to do some new things and try things out.

Blake Droesch:

Yeah, and I think to Suzy's point, it is like they're trying a lot of ways to sort of build their brand to overcome the fact that they're not the issuer, so they're not necessarily the brand that is directly associated in the mind of consumer with the payment or the credit card. And I think that probably-

Marcus Johnson:

Good point.

Blake Droesch:

Is driving a lot of the motivation as to why they're looking for new ways to stand out as a brand. And I think that's smart.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

And I think these extra layers of touch points are really just going to help with, again, recall an emotional connection. Next time you're reaching for a payment method, you're going to be like, oh yeah, this makes me feel better, so I'm going to use it. Will you get desensitized to the noise or maybe turn it off like Sarah was saying? Maybe, but you'll still know that they have your best interest at heart.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah. Do we think this could be ... I mean, it sounds like they're just going to have one distinct, this is what happens on your phone, this is how it'll vibrate when you use MasterCard. But do we think that retailers might eventually evolve this into a, this could be good for rewards so that your phone has a distinct vibration after a transaction if you unlock a free coffee, for example. And the consumers could get used to touching their phone to the terminal and then at some point getting the reward of, oh, it made that noise, it did that vibration that I know means that I got some kind of ... I've unlocked some kind of a bonus or some kind of a freebie.

Sarah Marzano:

I think there's a potential there for sure. This is niche, but I've sold stuff on eBay before and that there's a special noise that pings when something sells and it's exciting, like to Blake's point.

Marcus Johnson:

I was trying to find any research on haptics, there's not a ton. There was a Fast Company article that was written quite recently from Chandra Johnson-Greene of VSP Vision, that's the company name. And they were noticing this concept of the Internet of Senses, which encompasses technologies designed to enhance and digitize sensory experiences, so AR, VR, AI. And they were saying at that market, that space, is projected to grow fivefold from 17 billion last year to 84 by 2030. So a lot of hope with the Internet of Senses and haptics being a part of that. We'll see if it can catch on. That's all we've got time for the story of the week.

Time now for the game of the week. Today's game, The Super Duper Game.

How's it work? Three rounds. Today we have the random scale, fill in the blank and pretend CEO. The better the answers, the more points you get. Pretty simple.

We'll start with round one. Let's go Sarah first. For the random scale, where folks have to tell me about the chances of something happening using the random scale. And the story is, "Amazon's new Shark Tank style show gives the winners prime placement in its stores," writes Jessica Toonkel of The Journal. The Retail Giants Competition Show debuting at the end of October will feature entrepreneurs pitching their products to an audience and a panel of judges including Amazon executives like its VP of US Ad Sales and the Ring smart doorbell creator whose company Amazon bought. As well as celebrities like goop founder, Gwyneth Paltrow, these will be some of the judges. Contestants get 90 seconds to pitch their invention to a studio audience and the judges, as well, who vote on whether the product should go to the judges. "Shark Tank meets the home shopping network," explains Ms. Toonkel. Finalists will have their wares sold in a new Amazon buy it now online store and the episode winner collects 20 grand.

Sarah, will retail the game shows like Amazon's Buy It Now catch on today's scale is hell no, it will work for Amazon, but no one else, or give it time and others will pop up.

Sarah Marzano:

So I'm going to go with, it may work for Amazon, but no one else. Because I think there's a few different ways, like many of the things that Amazon introduces, there's a few different wins that are sort of potential here. One is bolstering it's lineup of original content. And I was reading in the article that unscripted content is a void that they've been trying to fill. So just again, bringing more original content for viewers. They're going to play, I think, with connecting content and commerce. They've been playing around with directly shoppable TV and video content. And then there is just the traditional, the appeal to like, hey, here's products that you can shop at Amazon and just driving traffic to their website. So I think there's a few different ways that this could be looked at as a success. This isn't their first attempt at shoppable TV show content, they've experimented a lot with QR codes in the past. But I think this maybe will introduce some of the more sophisticated features they've been playing around with.

Marcus Johnson:

Blake.

Blake Droesch:

I'm going to say hell no, it's not going to work. I think Amazon has been trying to bolster their original content, they're also trying to get their live shopping stuff off the ground. The live shopping stuff has not worked. I don't think putting a bunch of Amazon executives forward as potential TV personalities is going to be any success at all. Maybe they'll be able to throw enough money at cast trap celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow will be able to come on the show and actually attract viewers in any way. But if you think of Shark Tank, it's about the products that they're selling, but it's just as much about the personalities of the judges, as well. And I don't think this and that Amazon exec is going to be able to bring in eyeballs.

Sarah Marzano:

What about JB SMOOVE?

Blake Droesch:

Is he going to be one of the-

Sarah Marzano:

He's hosting.

Blake Droesch:

He's hosting?

Sarah Marzano:

He's hosting.

Blake Droesch:

All right, sorry, I'm going to change my thing to go-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't even know who that is.

Blake Droesch:

Absolute, yes, big success.

Marcus Johnson:

I didn't either, Suzy.

Sarah Marzano:

There we go. Seriously?

Blake Droesch:

You don't know who JB SMOOVE is from Curb Your Enthusiasm?

Sarah Marzano:

Watch Curb Your Enthusiasm, are you kidding me?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Which character is it?

Blake Droesch:

Leon.

Sarah Marzano:

Larry's roommate.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, got it.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, no idea.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

It's awesome.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy, you're up.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So I, of course, don't have the exact answer that you're looking for in that this is not new and I don't think it's going to work. But I don't think it's a hell no because I think every retailer under the sun is going to try some variation of this. It's just it's not going to work because there are a lot of friction points that happen. And of course, I don't want to point back to another Macy's example, but in 2012, Macy's with, I think it was Saxon, another department store. So we're talking about a long time ago, did this program called Fashion Star where they had fashion designers that were kind of new but not really well known.

So it's kind of the same idea pre-Shark Tank-ish. And the Macy's buyers that were on stage were supposed to decide if they liked the designs or not and then buy it. But from the time it was bought to the time it made it into a store and to the time it made it to the right store, and now maybe gen AI will help with that. But it just didn't match. There was too much friction between when it aired and when the product dropped and having enough of the items at the right price that people were willing to pay, that it just wasn't feasible. So I think it's a nice idea like Sarah and Blake have said, it's not the first foray, it won't be the last one. It's gimmicky in that it'll bring viewers, it'll bring attention, it'll be good PR. But is it going to bring in dollars? No.

Marcus Johnson:

So it sounds like you're going with give it time, others will pop up and they will fail.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Correct.

Marcus Johnson:

Quite a nice answer.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Give it time in that it's already happened, none of it is new.

Marcus Johnson:

Right, right, right. But give it time for others to come along and we'll see.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

To keep trying.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, right. I don't even know where ... did you guys see where it's going to be streamed or broadcast?

Sarah Marzano:

I assume-

Marcus Johnson:

Prime?

Blake Droesch:

I am sure Amazon Prime.

Sarah Marzano:

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay. Because I thought it was interesting, because there was this chart here that was showing where folks prefer to watch shopping related content and social media was number one, Instagram and Facebook, 64%. Then it was video sharing sites like YouTube 53%. And then a significant 31% watch them on online marketplaces like Amazon, which is interestingly the same share of those who watch on TV networks sites like QVC or HSN. So yeah, it depends on where they put this as well. If they put it on social media or maybe on YouTube, it might have maybe more chance of catching on.

But our Senior Retail Analyst, Zak Stambor, made a good point. He was saying getting on the show would be a huge win for entrepreneurs. Even if they don't win since the show could create its own version of the Shark Tank effect where people who appear on the show experience major boosts in awareness, traffic and revenues even when they can't score a deal.

All right folks, round two. We'll start with Blake, we're playing fill in the blank where folks fill in the blank. J.Crew's print catalog is back after a seven year hiatus, notes that very gentleman Zak Stambor. Producing three per year starting this month. The retailer will mail them to loyalty program members and other shoppers. They will also be available in J.Crew stores. Zak explains that the catalog will look a little different featuring thick paper stock editorial content like an interview with actress Demi Moore. And glossy images of models in the Hamptons and New York City. Fill in the blank, Blake, the return of J.Crew's print catalog is blank.

Blake Droesch:

Good for J.Crew but not necessarily good for anybody else.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay.

Blake Droesch:

I think the catalog has some history, it has some cultural cache that I think probably lends itself to sort of the early aughts revival that's happening in fashion right now. So I think it's smart of them as an attempt to revitalize their brands, reach a younger audience with sort of a little bit sort of nostalgic-esque sort of play at reviving print. Which I think is good given what their brand represents and what it's all about. But I think Gap putting out a print catalog or Banana Republic would do nothing for them.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay. Suzy?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

The return of the J.Crew print catalog is expensive nostalgia. Just like Blake said, it's a very hot trend now, what was old is new again. But all of these newer trends, new old trends have been reinterpreted. And so I think J.Crew is doing a cool thing with this idea of it being like a magazine, even magazines aren't really in anymore. So it's like a glossy magazine, it's like bringing the online world in real life. Everybody is interested in these editorialized content more and more now. It's like influencers sort of meet catalog and purchasing, changing the path to purchase. Again, not super linear. You didn't even know you needed something and all of a sudden you're calling it in and buying it or going onto their website.

So I think it's really cool, memories do sell. And I like that they're very specific in who it's going to because it sends this message of limited availability and you're important to us. But I think it's a little bit tone deaf because of sustainability. So yeah, they went from a gazillion to three, but I think they probably, if they had just done one, they would still have that same sort of impact of the nostalgia without wasting so much paper.

Marcus Johnson:

By a bazillion, Suzy means 13. They've gone from 13-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I couldn't remember.

Marcus Johnson:

To three per year.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I didn't want to say the wrong number.

Marcus Johnson:

But it was once a month and now it's just three a year. Sarah.

Sarah Marzano:

I love this move and I think maybe it appeals just specifically to me. I am someone who has loved of nostalgia for that time in J.Crew's history. And I think they're sort of right to recognize they once occupied such an iconic place in American fashion, but they sort of famously, in retail at least, lost their way. They tried to do too much, they had these big aspirations, they were at Fashion Week, they sacrificed this connection they had to the core customer they were originally meant to appeal to and I think they've made some really smart moves. They brought over Libby Wadle from Madewell, they have a creative director that has a great following on social media, Olympia Gayot, and I think they're tapping into this nostalgia in a few smart ways.

So Demi Moore who's very iconographic of that time, tapping into the energy around vintage J.Crew. The interview with Demi Moore talks about her vintage collection and they're bringing it into their merchandising as well. So they've got capsule collections of iconic vintage J.Crew products that they're doing a drop style with. And I think the magazine or the catalog is a great way to tie that together.

Marcus Johnson:

All really good points. Zak made this one, as well, which I'm wanted to quickly bring up, saying that the catalog will help with controlling the story that you want to tell. Because they're linear in nature and it allows brands to tell a clear, coherent brand story in a way that's relatively difficult in other channels. Because if someone goes to your site, you could try to steer them in a certain direction or anticipate where they're going to go, what they're going to do first. But this allows you to tell a very clear story.

All right gang, let's move to our third round. It's pretend CEO, where our contestants pretend to be a CEO. For this round we're talking about Peloton's next move. Katie Dayton of the Wall Street Journal writes that Peloton's comeback marketing plan will involve less bike, fewer promos and more men. She notes that it's new-ish CMO, Lauren Weinberg, who joined the company in January is preparing a marketing campaign designed to return to relevance a company that spent the last few years writing itself following a pandemic boom and bust. In August the connected fitness company reported its first rise in sales in over two years. Ms. Dayton says the new ads will try and convey that Peloton is a suite of services for a range of customers with varying fitness goals.

We'll start with Suzy for this one. If you were CEO for a day of Peloton, what would you do as the pretend CEO to get Peloton back on track?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

So I think too ambitious for one day, but one of the things I would recommend is that they start thinking about more locations. There aren't a lot of studios and we know that during COVID everybody was stuck at home and doing the bikes and other sort of magic mirrory kind of activities from home. They transitioned that to, you don't need an expensive bike, you can use an app.

But what I think they're missing is that sense of community in real life that they have built on the bikes. Like I have friends who come from Chicago and from Toronto, actually, to go to the studio here who are fan people, boys and girls, men and women, fans, big fans of some of the instructors. But I just don't think they have that right amount of space in real life space. As far as the new marketing campaigns are concerned, acquisition is hard, I think it's important to think about all the different segments. But I think it's critical, so another thing I would do is make sure that we don't alienate the core customer and that we truly can segment and personalize messages to the right person at the right time.

Marcus Johnson:

Sarah, pretend CEO for Peloton.

Sarah Marzano:

Yeah, so I continue to be fascinated that Peloton didn't have as much of a game plan for the world post pandemic. I agree with Suzy in some ways as sort of considering more studio spaces. But I think another thing that they could do, and there's a lot of customers who bought the Peloton bike during the pandemic and are now reevaluating whether that it makes sense to take up that space in whatever their living situation is. But I think there's ways to reinforce the value of the monthly membership and double down on the strength of that equipment through partnership.

So think through where people are spending their time. Think through is there an opportunity to have Peloton bikes available at airports, have them available at more hotels, make it very publicly easy to understand what hotels they're going to be available at. Companies are going into return to office mandates, right? Could you do partnerships with larger corporate office buildings or luxury apartments? I think taking that strength of the physical equipment and making it more available to members wherever they're spending their time is what I would do.

Marcus Johnson:

You said they a lot. I needed more we for you to get more into character.

Sarah Marzano:

Yes, we, right.

Marcus Johnson:

No, it's fine.

Sarah Marzano:

Sorry.

Marcus Johnson:

It's too late.

Sarah Marzano:

This is me, I'm doing this.

Marcus Johnson:

That's going to hurt your score. Blake, you're up.

Blake Droesch:

What my team and I, at Peloton, would do-

Marcus Johnson:

Nice, very nice.

Sarah Marzano:

Dammit.

Blake Droesch:

My team, they do a tremendous job, by the way. I would introduce a wearable. I think the wearable is where the fitness world is going and Peloton needs to, I think, re-center their flywheel and maybe it's not going to be around the bike, maybe it's around the app. Which seems to be a more dynamic part of the subscription and people like to exercise in a multitude of ways. Particularly people who are really invested in health and fitness, which is their core audience.

I think something akin to a watch like the Garmin that are really popular or the Apple Watch. They've got to figure out a way to be able to own the ecosystem. And I'm not so sure that an app on your phone or your smartwatch is the way that they're really going to stand out as the brand that's going to be able to build a larger flywheel. So I think a line of wearables would actually be a really big investment and could potentially bankrupt the company. But I'm only CEO for one day, so I think it's a great big idea.

Marcus Johnson:

Someone else has problems.

Blake Droesch:

With a lot of investment and we'll see what happens.

Sarah Marzano:

Maybe there's a haptic message opportunity there too for you hit different milestones in your-

Blake Droesch:

Apps.

Marcus Johnson:

Nice tie in.

Blake Droesch:

I think that's a fantastic idea.

Marcus Johnson:

Will that get you extra points? No.

Sarah Marzano:

Give me a raise.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

You know actually, I didn't think about it. The Fitbit does buzz with the running shoes when you get to the 10,000 and it does a party on your wrist.

Marcus Johnson:

So, it's already thing? Sarah.

Sarah Marzano:

And I bet you love it, Suzy, yeah?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I do. You are a hundred percent accurate. It didn't even occur to me.

Marcus Johnson:

I thought that was an original idea.

Blake Droesch:

Unfortunately the segment's already over.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, we're done.

So things aren't as bleak as they may appear. The Peloton has stabilized its users in the US. They went from 4 million to 6 million from 2020 to 2022. Then they fell from that peak of six point something to five that they're at today. And our forecasting team expects that 5 million to hold up for the next couple of years. Part of the reason is they're a fiercely loyal user base. The company has a really low churn rate, 1.2% among paid connected fitness subscribers, notes Zak Stambor, our Senior Retail Analyst.

The question is, can it revive that kind of flash in the pan moments? Maybe it doesn't need to get it back all at once and maybe now it's kind of slow and steady from now on. But it's been quite a roller coaster, Peloton's share price went from 25 bucks in March, 2020 to 150 and then back to 25 in just two years. And now they're at less than $5. So it's not great, but maybe there's hope.

If you put Blake in as pretend CEO, then maybe there will be hope because he is this week's winner of the game of the week. Congratulations to Blake.

Blake Droesch:

Thanks Marcus. I want to thank the folks behind the scenes who never get enough credit. Stu Victoria, Lance-

Marcus Johnson:

Stu gets too much credit.

Blake Droesch:

You guys are the ones who really make it happen.

Marcus Johnson:

To be honest, yeah, [inaudible 00:29:22]-

Blake Droesch:

Stu, he's all around a good guy, though. Shows up every day with a smile on his face and-

Marcus Johnson:

He's not keeping score. You don't have to give him all his confidence.

Blake Droesch:

Brings a lot of integrity.

Sarah Marzano:

We have five minutes, so-

Marcus Johnson:

I'm the scorekeeper.

Sarah Marzano:

Can we turn Blake's mic off?

Marcus Johnson:

Keep going, buddy.

Blake Droesch:

It's not about the score. It's just that I just want to give credit where credit is due.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay. All right.

Speaker 5:

I think Blake should always win.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

He does always win.

Speaker 5:

It's super duper game.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

He always wins. It's not even-

Speaker 5:

Because Blake is super duper.

Blake Droesch:

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't want to be a sore loser, but he wins every time.

Marcus Johnson:

All right, gang, that's all we've got time for the game of the week. Today's last segment, as always, it's dinner party data.

Blake, you won, you're up. Tell us about the most interesting thing that you learned this week.

Blake Droesch:

If a stranger were to knock on your home's front door, would you answer it?

Marcus Johnson:

Absolutely not.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No.

Blake Droesch:

Sarah?

Sarah Marzano:

Yeah.

Blake Droesch:

Okay. Well, 43% ... so, sorry. 48%-

Marcus Johnson:

I thought that was the end. Just a question here.

Blake Droesch:

Okay, we'll move on.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy.

Blake Droesch:

48% of US adults would answer the door, 17%, not so sure, 35% hard no, would ignore them. Members of the silent generation are most likely to answer the door for the stranger.

Marcus Johnson:

Good people.

Blake Droesch:

Whereas Millennials are least likely to answer the door-

Marcus Johnson:

That tracks.

Blake Droesch:

For a stranger. And there you have it, that's my dinner party data.

Marcus Johnson:

Millennials. I'm kidding. I, of, course would.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Well, would you look through the hole ... like if you can see who it is, then yeah, you would answer. But if you can't see who it is, you would never answer.

Marcus Johnson:

Just open it. Who's it going to be?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, the boogeyman.

Marcus Johnson:

How many enemies do you have?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I don't have any. It's-

Sarah Marzano:

Stu's definitely not answering the door.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

People you don't know.

Marcus Johnson:

You have one.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah, it's usually people you don't know.

Marcus Johnson:

All right, Suzy, Samaritan of the week. Go ahead, you're up.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Perfect. My dinner party data is a little bit about travel. One in four people plan to do a business trip in 2024. One in five plan to do a work-cation, and there are a lot of very positive benefits to doing a work-cation. Which is when you travel and you also work and you get to experience new things. What I did want to talk about is the term digital nomad. Do you guys know when it was first used? 1997, there was a book-

Marcus Johnson:

Wow.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Called Digital Nomad.

Sarah Marzano:

Whoa.

Blake Droesch:

Whoa.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah. By someone by the last name of Makimoto and David Manners, which predicted the rise of the lifestyle. And there are many stats around it, but I'm going to leave you with the top three countries that people digital nomad are. Do you know?

Blake Droesch:

Where are they from? Or where do they go to digital nomad?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Where they're going. US is the biggest, Millennials are the biggest, US is by far the biggest Americans that do digital nomadding. Top three countries-

Blake Droesch:

I would say Mexico.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Sarah Marzano:

Germany?

Suzy Davidkhanian:

US, Thailand and Spain. Top three cities, London, Bangkok and New York City, as they don't match a hundred percent. There are lists like when I was looking at going and doing my own digital nomad situation for a very short period of time, there are lists of places and things to think about it. It's really quite fascinating space. And so, one in five do it.

Marcus Johnson:

I'm now realizing, I think I've been on work-cation for the last three years. Okay.

Sarah Marzano:

How nice for you.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson:

It's been great. Sarah, you're up.

Sarah Marzano:

All right. My dad gets credit, he sent me this news article. It is hard to find news that is not depressing. There's a new study from the Nature Ecology and Evolution Organization around observing octopuses, which is the plural, octopi is not right apparently. And fish who had been observed hunting together. And for years it was sort of assumed that the fish were kind of freeloading off of the octopus because the octopus is the one killing the prey and then everyone's feeding off of it. But they were able to use multiple camera angles and reconstruct what was happening to identify that the two or multiple different species were actually working together. So the fish were seeking out prey, presenting options to the octopus, and then the octopus was choosing and killing the prey. And everyone was benefiting with what the article called a first come, first serve feeding opportunity. But the other fun thing is that there were some fish that were freeloading, and when that happens, the octopus would punch them in the face, which is just fun.

Marcus Johnson:

Is fun?

Sarah Marzano:

Funny?

Marcus Johnson:

Okay, so that's a bit better. But still bad. Are we sure that the fish weren't just like, oh, quick, the cameras are here. Look like you're trying.

Sarah Marzano:

We're not sure. I will dig deeper on that for the next time-

Marcus Johnson:

All right, yeah, I don't trust them.

Sarah Marzano:

I never come here.

Marcus Johnson:

Never come? All right. Sarah's ... all right. Sarah's not coming back, folks, this is her last episode.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No.

Marcus Johnson:

She's sick of losing on the game.

Sarah Marzano:

It's been a good run. Suzy, said I don't read.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I did not say that out loud on camera.

Marcus Johnson:

Suzy may or may not have said that Sarah can't/doesn't read. All right, I got one for you real quick-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That is not what I said.

Marcus Johnson:

Folks. Actually-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

All she does is read.

Marcus Johnson:

When the cameras are off, man, Suzy is a meanie.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

No, all she does is read, obviously. That's what I meant.

Sarah Marzano:

Blink twice if I need-

Marcus Johnson:

All right, I've got one for you real quick. What folks are actually doing when "working", which I can do now because it's a video podcast from home. According to a recent workplace and culture study from SurveyMonkey, so three things for you. One, folks are taking vacations without telling anyone. Sneaky. 32% of hybrid or remote workers admit to taking a quiet vacation as it's called at least once within the last year, or completing work while going on vacation without officially taking time off and telling their employer or manager. I've got to stop telling Stuart ... I'm too honest. I'm telling him everything. Forget that, quiet vacation here I come.

Number two, what non-work activities are remote folks doing during the workday? Oh.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Laundry.

Marcus Johnson:

Laundry was ... that's later.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Oh, cooking.

Marcus Johnson:

Well, laundry's errands, so that's second, I guess. First was multi-tasked on a work call or completed household chores. Actually, no, that is laundry and cooking, it could be said 46%. 33% ran errands outside of the home, 20% took a nap, 17% worked from a different location without telling anyone, then it was watch TV and played video games, and then 4%, a very brave people worked another job.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Wow.

Marcus Johnson:

Blake.

Sarah Marzano:

So industrious.

Marcus Johnson:

What non-work activities-

Blake Droesch:

I feel like that line between a quiet vacation and a work-cation is really ... that's really in the eye of the beholder, I think.

Marcus Johnson:

Non-work activities, last one. What non-work activities are remote folks doing during a video call? 29% will use the bathroom, 21% browse social media-

Sarah Marzano:

A video call?

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, camera off. They'll just go camera off, but someone's on video.

Blake Droesch:

Hopefully sound, too.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, everything. 21% of people browse social media, 14% did a little online shopping, 12% popped some laundry in, 9% cleaned the kitchen, 4% fell asleep-

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Stop.

Marcus Johnson:

And 3% of the most brazen jumped in the shower.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

During a call?

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, just video and sound off. And then they were just listening in, but they decided to-

Blake Droesch:

I will say one time during a podcast meeting, I made an entire full breakfast and then came back and Marcus was still talking.

Marcus Johnson:

Okay, that didn't happen.

Sarah Marzano:

That sounds about right.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

I mean, now you can say that because you already won.

Marcus Johnson:

Yeah, that's true. What did happen though is Suzy thought it would be smart to try and record an episode from a boat once.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Stop. That is not what happened.

Marcus Johnson:

That's a true story.

Blake Droesch:

That's a true story.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That is not what happened.

Sarah Marzano:

I think I heard about that.

Marcus Johnson:

That's a hundred percent true. Victoria who edits the show nearly had an aneurysm.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

That is not true.

Marcus Johnson:

Furious. Anyway, that's all we've got time for today's episode before Suzy can refuse it. Thank you to all my guests. Thank you to Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian:

Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

Thank you to Blake.

Blake Droesch:

Absolute pleasure as always, Marcus. Have a great day.

Marcus Johnson:

Yes, the pleasure's all ours. Trust me. Thank you to Sarah.

Sarah Marzano:

Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson:

Being on her last episode. Thanks to Victoria who edits the show, Stuart who runs the team, Sophie does our social media and Lance who runs our video podcast. And thanks to everyone for listening in to the Behind the Numbers Weekly Listen, an EMARKETER podcast. We hope to see you on Monday for the Around the World Show hosted by Bill Fisher. He'll be speaking with Ethan Cramer-Flood, Man Cheung Chung and Matteo Ceurvels, all about advertising bans around the world. Happiest of weekends.